4 ms·

That reads like a rant, and I don't understand what the actual problem is — do you have an old Mac that can't be upgraded to the latest OS X? Do you have to pay

That reads like a rant, and I don't understand what the actual problem is — do you have an old Mac that can't be upgraded to the latest OS X? Do you have to pay money to upgrade OS X, and you don't want to? Or do you refuse to apply a free OS upgrade? If it's the last of the three, then that's just a decision on Apple's part to not waste resources trying to support every possible combination of OS X version and iOS version. Yes, that leaves people like you unhappy, but leaves the majority of users happy, with better software.

spc476 11y ago
I had a Mac (a few years old) that I was happy with and saw no need to upgrade (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Had I known that the upgrade to iOS9 (which had a feature I would like) would make it impossible to backup said phone to the Mac, I would not have upgraded it (especially since once the upgrade to the iPhone happened, it was impossible to downgrade to iOS 8.4, which I was also happy with). Yes, the upgrade was free (monetarily). It was not free timewise, and it took a few weeks to sort out as it completely broke my workflow (it broke the running version of Synergy http://synergy-project.org/ http://synergy-project.org/ and to upgrade that would have required an upgrade of my Linux system (yes, it's an older system---again, it ain't broke so I'm not fixing it and lose even more time and effort). I was able to fix the Synergy issue (http://boston.conman.org/2015/10/15.2 http://boston.conman.org/2015/10/15.2) but the point remains---Apple forcing updates. I know most here just live with the constant upgrade treadmill ("OH MY GOD! YOU HAVEN'T UPDATED IN 20 MINUTES? HERETIC!") but having been burned oh so many times in the past thirty years I've grown to dread it. It gets tiresome relearning how to use something I've already learned how to use yet again. For the tenth time. Because we in the industry have deemed that if a program hasn't been changed in the past twenty minutes, it therefore must be unmaintained and a piece of garbage (with the sole exception of zlib I think). Me, bitter?
- thealistra 11y ago
  you could backup to iCloud instead
  - spc476 11y ago
    I'm masochistic enough to run my own email and web server. Letting someone else hold my data? I as wrote, I'd rather not have the iNSA view my iData without my iKnowldege. Is that so iWrong?
    - coldtea 11y ago
      >I'm masochistic enough to run my own email and web server. So clearly an outlier who shouldn't suppose mass market OSs (and their update/release philosophy) targeted at regular users would work well for them?
    - kartickv 11y ago
      As a friendly suggestion, your points will be easier to take without all the sarcasm. If you feel uncomfortable backing up to iCloud, that's your right, and an opinion that needs to be respected. When it comes to privacy, there's no one right answer for everyone.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >(yes, it's an older system---again, it ain't broke so I'm not fixing it and lose even more time and effort). It seems like this "if it ain't broke not fix it" strategy doesn't work out that great for you. It only postpones problems for the future, when inevitably something will be broke (software rots too, not just food, especially in 2016, where it depends on tons of staff that can change/be deprecated/obsolete/hard to replace/taken down etc over time, from the hardware to the network to web services). "If it ain't broken don't fix it" is only short term advice. It doesn't eliminate the need to keep software systems reasonably up to date (and a 5 years old OS is like a 20 year old car in IT years).
  - spc476 11y ago
    I wouldn't mind upgrading for bugs or features, it's the (in my opinion) gratuitous changes (just for change's sake). For example, on Mac OS-X, there a few apps I run maximized. Pre-El Capitan, it would make the window fill the entire desktop (or screen or place or whatever it's being called these days) while keeping the menu bar across the top and you could use Mission Control (El Capitan name---it was called something else previously---are you beginning to see the picture here?) to see all the windows. Now? Maximizing the screen causes the window to cover the entire screen, hiding the menu bar, and giving that window its own desktop (or space, or screen or whatever it's called these days) and preventing Mission Control from showing that window (or other windows, depending on which desktop/place/screen you're on). That breaks a workflow I've developed over the past few years, just because some engineers at Apple thought this behavior is what we needed. THAT'S what I'm ranting against. Arbitrary (to me) changes that break things (work flows, other programs, whatever). As far as cars go, about the only controls that tend to move about the cabin are the gear shift (either right side of steering column, or just right of the driver), head light controls and wind shield wipers, but there's generally only a few places they'll migrate to. You will never find the break and gas pedals swapped though.
    - kartickv 11y ago
      Well, I think using the green button to go to full screen is an improvement. It gives me more space on my laptop screen, and lets me focus on what I'm writing, with less distraction. For example, as I write this comment, do I need to know that Google Drive has synced, and that Onedrive is still syncing, and that Bluetooth is on? Do I need this information every second I'm using my computer? No. It just distracts me from what I'm trying to do. As for the analogy with the car, that actually is a downside of my car — it doesn't improve over time the way OS X does. And I'm happy OS X is improving, as opposed to giving in to change-averse users.

spc476 11y ago

I had a Mac (a few years old) that I was happy with and saw no need to upgrade (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Had I known that the upgrade to iOS9 (which had a feature I would like) would make it impossible to backup said phone to the Mac, I would not have upgraded it (especially since once the upgrade to the iPhone happened, it was impossible to downgrade to iOS 8.4, which I was also happy with). Yes, the upgrade was free (monetarily). It was not free timewise, and it took a few weeks to sort out as it completely broke my workflow (it broke the running version of Synergy http://synergy-project.org/ http://synergy-project.org/ and to upgrade that would have required an upgrade of my Linux system (yes, it's an older system---again, it ain't broke so I'm not fixing it and lose even more time and effort). I was able to fix the Synergy issue (http://boston.conman.org/2015/10/15.2 http://boston.conman.org/2015/10/15.2) but the point remains---Apple forcing updates. I know most here just live with the constant upgrade treadmill ("OH MY GOD! YOU HAVEN'T UPDATED IN 20 MINUTES? HERETIC!") but having been burned oh so many times in the past thirty years I've grown to dread it. It gets tiresome relearning how to use something I've already learned how to use yet again. For the tenth time. Because we in the industry have deemed that if a program hasn't been changed in the past twenty minutes, it therefore must be unmaintained and a piece of garbage (with the sole exception of zlib I think). Me, bitter?

thealistra 11y ago
you could backup to iCloud instead
- spc476 11y ago
  I'm masochistic enough to run my own email and web server. Letting someone else hold my data? I as wrote, I'd rather not have the iNSA view my iData without my iKnowldege. Is that so iWrong?
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >I'm masochistic enough to run my own email and web server. So clearly an outlier who shouldn't suppose mass market OSs (and their update/release philosophy) targeted at regular users would work well for them?
  - kartickv 11y ago
    As a friendly suggestion, your points will be easier to take without all the sarcasm. If you feel uncomfortable backing up to iCloud, that's your right, and an opinion that needs to be respected. When it comes to privacy, there's no one right answer for everyone.
coldtea 11y ago
>(yes, it's an older system---again, it ain't broke so I'm not fixing it and lose even more time and effort). It seems like this "if it ain't broke not fix it" strategy doesn't work out that great for you. It only postpones problems for the future, when inevitably something will be broke (software rots too, not just food, especially in 2016, where it depends on tons of staff that can change/be deprecated/obsolete/hard to replace/taken down etc over time, from the hardware to the network to web services). "If it ain't broken don't fix it" is only short term advice. It doesn't eliminate the need to keep software systems reasonably up to date (and a 5 years old OS is like a 20 year old car in IT years).
- spc476 11y ago
  I wouldn't mind upgrading for bugs or features, it's the (in my opinion) gratuitous changes (just for change's sake). For example, on Mac OS-X, there a few apps I run maximized. Pre-El Capitan, it would make the window fill the entire desktop (or screen or place or whatever it's being called these days) while keeping the menu bar across the top and you could use Mission Control (El Capitan name---it was called something else previously---are you beginning to see the picture here?) to see all the windows. Now? Maximizing the screen causes the window to cover the entire screen, hiding the menu bar, and giving that window its own desktop (or space, or screen or whatever it's called these days) and preventing Mission Control from showing that window (or other windows, depending on which desktop/place/screen you're on). That breaks a workflow I've developed over the past few years, just because some engineers at Apple thought this behavior is what we needed. THAT'S what I'm ranting against. Arbitrary (to me) changes that break things (work flows, other programs, whatever). As far as cars go, about the only controls that tend to move about the cabin are the gear shift (either right side of steering column, or just right of the driver), head light controls and wind shield wipers, but there's generally only a few places they'll migrate to. You will never find the break and gas pedals swapped though.
  - kartickv 11y ago
    Well, I think using the green button to go to full screen is an improvement. It gives me more space on my laptop screen, and lets me focus on what I'm writing, with less distraction. For example, as I write this comment, do I need to know that Google Drive has synced, and that Onedrive is still syncing, and that Bluetooth is on? Do I need this information every second I'm using my computer? No. It just distracts me from what I'm trying to do. As for the analogy with the car, that actually is a downside of my car — it doesn't improve over time the way OS X does. And I'm happy OS X is improving, as opposed to giving in to change-averse users.