34 ms·

Courts determine Australian ISPs not liable for users piracy.

69 points by steerpike 17y ago

sh1mmer 17y ago
"Mr Cobden also suggested that the companies should ask the file-sharing program BitTorrent to do more to crack down on piracy." I think people may not quite understand how this works (again).
- JacobAldridge 17y ago
  Perhaps BitTorrent should run for congress, and just confuse the judicial system in multiple countries, on multiple fronts. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1098559 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1098559
  - pyre 17y ago
    That's an interesting parallel. What would happen is a multi-national corporation ran for office? How would that affect relations between foreign operations and the government of the jurisdictions where they reside?
- astrec 17y ago
  In this case it's the reporter. I think it's fair to say Richard Cobden SC has a complete command of how this works. During the trial he made the argument iiNet does not own, control, promote or support BitTorrent software; that the film studios have contractual relationships with companies that allow illegal downloads, including BitTorrent, Inc., and despite this there were no warnings on the sites about downloading copyright material.
JacobAldridge 17y ago
Judiciary down. Executive and Legislative to go.
- Groxx 17y ago
  I dunno. I think this was a fluke in how educated the judge was. Do you really expect lightning to strike the same place twice? Much less three times? The odds are significantly worse in those two branches, methinks.
jrockway 17y ago
My jaw dropped after I read the first few words: "The Australian film and television industry has lost a case."
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
MikeCapone 17y ago
Any Australian HN readers could explain why Australia (or at least its government) seems to be obsessed with controlling the Internet? Australia seems like a pretty open country otherwise.
- pyre 17y ago
  Corruption? I remember hearing that at least one of the Australian states/provinces had massive police corruption that was discovered back in the 80's or so, and many of the people involved still hold positions. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) Maybe government corruption is rampant? IIRC in Italy there is a lot of corruption in the government, but people just accept it as a fact of life.
  - jstevens85 17y ago
    What would corruption have to do with censoring the Internet?
    - pyre 17y ago
      Companies that stand to gain from internet censorship lining the pockets of the right government officials?
  - jonny_noog 17y ago
    Sadly, corruption doesn't even need to enter into these issues. The Australian Government can stay well within the law and still manage to screw our Internet nicely.
  - astrec 17y ago
    You're right. Police corruption was rife in New South Wales which resulted in the Wood Royal Commission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_the_New_South_Wales_Police_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_the_New_S... and also in Queensland see the Fitzgerald Inquiry etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joh_Bjelke-Petersen#Fitzgerald_Inquiry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joh_Bjelke-Petersen#Fitzgerald_... Current government policy is generally not the result of corruption.
zmimon 17y ago
> Mr Gane said he was confident that the Federal Government would now review the laws surrounding copyright infringement Ominous.
- pyre 17y ago
  No necessarily. These people are always 'confident' that they will get their way, but I'm sure all but a very few of them are pragmatic behind closed doors. It's just playing to the media circus; creating an image for the general public.
tjmc 17y ago
The Federal Court summary is here: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/24.html http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/24.html The judge's grasp of the issues came as a pleasant surprise to me. He summarizes the entire judgement in para 21: "In summary, in this proceeding, the key question is: Did iiNet authorise copyright infringement? The Court answers such question in the negative for three reasons: first because the copyright infringements occurred directly as a result of the use of the BitTorrent system, not the use of the internet, and the respondent did not create and does not control the BitTorrent system; second because the respondent did not have a relevant power to prevent those infringements occurring; and third because the respondent did not sanction, approve or countenance copyright infringement."
10ren 17y ago
I agree with this decision. In Australia, although the Federal Court is not the highest court in the land (that's the High Court), it is generally recognized as having particular expertise in IP. Therefore, I think that although the studios will definitely attempt to appeal this, the High Court may well refuse to hear it. While I agree with the decision, I think that ISPs do make money from piracy - honestly, in practice, what are most of the massive data plans (180GB per month) used for...? I've met a few people who have every game/movie that comes out. They don't actually play or watch them though, I think it's more a collector impulse. http://www.iinet.net.au/broadband/plans.html http://www.iinet.net.au/broadband/plans.html disclaimer iinet is my ISP

69 points by steerpike 17y ago

"Mr Cobden also suggested that the companies should ask the file-sharing program BitTorrent to do more to crack down on piracy." I think people may not quite understand how this works (again).

JacobAldridge 17y ago
Perhaps BitTorrent should run for congress, and just confuse the judicial system in multiple countries, on multiple fronts. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1098559 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1098559
- pyre 17y ago
  That's an interesting parallel. What would happen is a multi-national corporation ran for office? How would that affect relations between foreign operations and the government of the jurisdictions where they reside?
astrec 17y ago
In this case it's the reporter. I think it's fair to say Richard Cobden SC has a complete command of how this works. During the trial he made the argument iiNet does not own, control, promote or support BitTorrent software; that the film studios have contractual relationships with companies that allow illegal downloads, including BitTorrent, Inc., and despite this there were no warnings on the sites about downloading copyright material.

JacobAldridge 17y ago

Judiciary down. Executive and Legislative to go.

Groxx 17y ago
I dunno. I think this was a fluke in how educated the judge was. Do you really expect lightning to strike the same place twice? Much less three times? The odds are significantly worse in those two branches, methinks.

jrockway 17y ago

My jaw dropped after I read the first few words: "The Australian film and television industry has lost a case."

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

MikeCapone 17y ago

Any Australian HN readers could explain why Australia (or at least its government) seems to be obsessed with controlling the Internet? Australia seems like a pretty open country otherwise.

pyre 17y ago
Corruption? I remember hearing that at least one of the Australian states/provinces had massive police corruption that was discovered back in the 80's or so, and many of the people involved still hold positions. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) Maybe government corruption is rampant? IIRC in Italy there is a lot of corruption in the government, but people just accept it as a fact of life.
- jstevens85 17y ago
  What would corruption have to do with censoring the Internet?
  - pyre 17y ago
    Companies that stand to gain from internet censorship lining the pockets of the right government officials?
- jonny_noog 17y ago
  Sadly, corruption doesn't even need to enter into these issues. The Australian Government can stay well within the law and still manage to screw our Internet nicely.
- astrec 17y ago
  You're right. Police corruption was rife in New South Wales which resulted in the Wood Royal Commission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_the_New_South_Wales_Police_Service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_the_New_S... and also in Queensland see the Fitzgerald Inquiry etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joh_Bjelke-Petersen#Fitzgerald_Inquiry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joh_Bjelke-Petersen#Fitzgerald_... Current government policy is generally not the result of corruption.

zmimon 17y ago

> Mr Gane said he was confident that the Federal Government would now review the laws surrounding copyright infringement Ominous.

pyre 17y ago
No necessarily. These people are always 'confident' that they will get their way, but I'm sure all but a very few of them are pragmatic behind closed doors. It's just playing to the media circus; creating an image for the general public.

tjmc 17y ago

The Federal Court summary is here: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/24.html http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/24.html The judge's grasp of the issues came as a pleasant surprise to me. He summarizes the entire judgement in para 21: "In summary, in this proceeding, the key question is: Did iiNet authorise copyright infringement? The Court answers such question in the negative for three reasons: first because the copyright infringements occurred directly as a result of the use of the BitTorrent system, not the use of the internet, and the respondent did not create and does not control the BitTorrent system; second because the respondent did not have a relevant power to prevent those infringements occurring; and third because the respondent did not sanction, approve or countenance copyright infringement."

10ren 17y ago

I agree with this decision. In Australia, although the Federal Court is not the highest court in the land (that's the High Court), it is generally recognized as having particular expertise in IP. Therefore, I think that although the studios will definitely attempt to appeal this, the High Court may well refuse to hear it. While I agree with the decision, I think that ISPs do make money from piracy - honestly, in practice, what are most of the massive data plans (180GB per month) used for...? I've met a few people who have every game/movie that comes out. They don't actually play or watch them though, I think it's more a collector impulse. http://www.iinet.net.au/broadband/plans.html http://www.iinet.net.au/broadband/plans.html disclaimer iinet is my ISP