6 ms·

I could not possibly agree with you more, having basically lived through this. When I look at the current tuition rates for my alma mater, Northeastern Universi

I could not possibly agree with you more, having basically lived through this. When I look at the current tuition rates for my alma mater, Northeastern University, it makes me cringe. However, the fact that the default experience at Northeastern requires a student to undergo multiple "co-ops", 6 month paid internships, is genuinely a smart thing in my mind. By the time I had graduated, I had work experience in embedded systems, a criminal justice stats analysis lab, the Red Sox, and a counter terrorism research center in DC. And that's all well and good, but the most important thing I took from it was that it taught me very quickly which sectors I did not want to work in. You often come out of high school with this idealized version of what it would be like to work in X field. To learn what that field is really like, and to learn if it's something you truly want to pursue, is a huge win in my mind for an undergraduate.

melted 11y ago
Another thing that could be helpful is not forcing kids to go to school when they're 18. They have no clue whatsoever what they want to do with their lives and by and large motivation to truly learn something is very much lacking. Or at least I lacked it. My MSc with honors is a feat of willpower more than anything else, I ended up using maybe 10% of the knowledge I acquired in those years. Now if my career started in some kind of an apprenticeship situation, you can bet I'd have plenty of motivation to master the field. That's more or less what happened after college, except it's completely backwards from what it should be, and it's extremely wasteful: I ended up learning (and then, of course, forgetting) a ton of not even remotely useful stuff in hopes that I'd need it when I actually have a proper job. Some might say this is well rounded education, but I'd rather do it by choice, and not arbitrarily. The meta point is, traditional education is really broken, and it has been for decades. It's good that someone has the guts to go against the flow and do even a modicum of rethinking. Academic community is extremely clique-y and conservative, so it takes non-trivial courage to pursue something like this.
- baudehlo 11y ago
  At 18 most kids have extremely strong passion about what they want to do. I know I did. I was wrong (maths vs computer science). But persuading them to take a break from that is going to be hard.
  - msellout 11y ago
    > most My experience says the opposite.
    - cgm616 11y ago
      In my experience, there are three groups of kids in high school, at least concerning future studies/employment. One group maybe wants to do something because it pays well, with no motivation because they aren't passionate. The next group is very passionate about one or two things, and have lots of motivation. However, they seem to view that as the only option, even though more likely than not it will change and shift. The third group has motivation to do work that is interesting, but they have know idea what to specialize in and have a few things they don't want to do. They aren't necessarily good at it all, and it's overwhelming to think about plans for the future because of the open-ended nature of that question to them. This is what I've observed. And of course, people change between these groups all the time.
      - restalis 11y ago
        The first group are mercenaries. They usually end up in finance, management, law, sales or some other (mostly) boring job, then politics. The second group are crusaders. They begin a quest for fulfillment of their working potential, usually despite their parent's advice, in anything they deem challenging (even in the same management or law as the first group, but for different reasons). The last group are peasants. These will either be stepping on their parent's footsteps (or following anything they are being sold by their entourage actually), or will feel themselves lost and helpless. ...and I noticed that people change between these groups too.
    - marincounty 11y ago
- totalrobe 11y ago
  In SDLC terms, college is an education delivered via the waterfall method whereas the workplace requires a continuing agile process.
  - melted 11y ago
    Not really. I would argue that today college is little more than a weeding out process that weeds out far too many. You sit in classes and solve bullshit problems with known answers that will have very little bearing on the realities of your professional life once you graduate. For the most part people go to college to have a piece of paper that says they went to college and had enough stamina to tolerate this bullshit and not drop out. What we should be cultivating instead is the capacity for self-directed learning and deep motivation.
    - seanp2k2 11y ago
      Stamina to tolerate bullshit and get things done despite thinking they're totally idiotic is valuable skill set in many industries. The piece of paper is also proof that you can follow directions well.
      - melted 11y ago
        Getting shit done is valuable. Tolerating bullshit is absolutely not.
        bsder 11y ago
        A failure of many youngsters is that they think everything annoying or boring is "bullshit". For example, I have to practically threaten employees in their 20's to actually fscking pick up the phone and actually TALK to a customer rep. Yes, it can be annoying--they're going to try to sell you something as that's their job. But some of them also know what they're selling better than anybody on the planet. The only way you will figure that out is if you talk to them.
        11y ago
cushychicken 11y ago
I've had a hand in hiring no less than three people from Northeastern University, and every single one of them has hit the ground running in their role. I can't speak highly enough of their program's co-op requirement. It's one of the smartest curriculum moves I can cite.

melted 11y ago

Another thing that could be helpful is not forcing kids to go to school when they're 18. They have no clue whatsoever what they want to do with their lives and by and large motivation to truly learn something is very much lacking. Or at least I lacked it. My MSc with honors is a feat of willpower more than anything else, I ended up using maybe 10% of the knowledge I acquired in those years. Now if my career started in some kind of an apprenticeship situation, you can bet I'd have plenty of motivation to master the field. That's more or less what happened after college, except it's completely backwards from what it should be, and it's extremely wasteful: I ended up learning (and then, of course, forgetting) a ton of not even remotely useful stuff in hopes that I'd need it when I actually have a proper job. Some might say this is well rounded education, but I'd rather do it by choice, and not arbitrarily. The meta point is, traditional education is really broken, and it has been for decades. It's good that someone has the guts to go against the flow and do even a modicum of rethinking. Academic community is extremely clique-y and conservative, so it takes non-trivial courage to pursue something like this.

baudehlo 11y ago
At 18 most kids have extremely strong passion about what they want to do. I know I did. I was wrong (maths vs computer science). But persuading them to take a break from that is going to be hard.
- msellout 11y ago
  > most My experience says the opposite.
  - cgm616 11y ago
    In my experience, there are three groups of kids in high school, at least concerning future studies/employment. One group maybe wants to do something because it pays well, with no motivation because they aren't passionate. The next group is very passionate about one or two things, and have lots of motivation. However, they seem to view that as the only option, even though more likely than not it will change and shift. The third group has motivation to do work that is interesting, but they have know idea what to specialize in and have a few things they don't want to do. They aren't necessarily good at it all, and it's overwhelming to think about plans for the future because of the open-ended nature of that question to them. This is what I've observed. And of course, people change between these groups all the time.
    - restalis 11y ago
      The first group are mercenaries. They usually end up in finance, management, law, sales or some other (mostly) boring job, then politics. The second group are crusaders. They begin a quest for fulfillment of their working potential, usually despite their parent's advice, in anything they deem challenging (even in the same management or law as the first group, but for different reasons). The last group are peasants. These will either be stepping on their parent's footsteps (or following anything they are being sold by their entourage actually), or will feel themselves lost and helpless. ...and I noticed that people change between these groups too.
  - marincounty 11y ago
totalrobe 11y ago
In SDLC terms, college is an education delivered via the waterfall method whereas the workplace requires a continuing agile process.
- melted 11y ago
  Not really. I would argue that today college is little more than a weeding out process that weeds out far too many. You sit in classes and solve bullshit problems with known answers that will have very little bearing on the realities of your professional life once you graduate. For the most part people go to college to have a piece of paper that says they went to college and had enough stamina to tolerate this bullshit and not drop out. What we should be cultivating instead is the capacity for self-directed learning and deep motivation.
  - seanp2k2 11y ago
    Stamina to tolerate bullshit and get things done despite thinking they're totally idiotic is valuable skill set in many industries. The piece of paper is also proof that you can follow directions well.
    - melted 11y ago
      Getting shit done is valuable. Tolerating bullshit is absolutely not.
      - bsder 11y ago
        A failure of many youngsters is that they think everything annoying or boring is "bullshit". For example, I have to practically threaten employees in their 20's to actually fscking pick up the phone and actually TALK to a customer rep. Yes, it can be annoying--they're going to try to sell you something as that's their job. But some of them also know what they're selling better than anybody on the planet. The only way you will figure that out is if you talk to them.
        11y ago

cushychicken 11y ago

I've had a hand in hiring no less than three people from Northeastern University, and every single one of them has hit the ground running in their role. I can't speak highly enough of their program's co-op requirement. It's one of the smartest curriculum moves I can cite.