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In many cases this is basically a rubber stamp. I know several people who were committed against their will after as little as a cursory 5 minute conversation.

by qrendel 11y ago

In many cases this is basically a rubber stamp. I know several people who were committed against their will after as little as a cursory 5 minute conversation. To anyone who knew them at all, they pretty clearly weren't violent or a threat to others. Another person I knew was hospitalized for a suicide attempt, at which the doctors, for no particular reason and with no evidence, assumed she must be hearing voices, and had her on anti-psychotics for around a week before her family managed to convince them otherwise. Clinical psychologists and psychiatrists weld a frightening amount of power over the people who may not be aware of just how easy it is to be locked up for seeking any kind of help or therapy. At this point, I consider pretty much any contact with clinical psychs to be every bit as dangerous as talking to a cop without a lawyer.

gnaritas 11y ago
> I know several people who were committed against their will after as little as a cursory 5 minute conversation. Not to call you a liar, but quite simply I don't believe that. Having dealt with wanting to get someone committed against their will, I found it was all but impossible unless they're actively and obviously dangerous to themselves or others. > Clinical psychologists and psychiatrists weld a frightening amount of power They really don't. They can't just commit people because they talked to them and decided hey lock that guy up.
- qrendel 11y ago
  > They can't just commit people because they talked to them and decided hey lock that guy up. They're free to assess you however they want and then use that as an excuse. Who is going to argue with and stop them? The judge? Your lawyer? Someone else who lacks a medical degree and "psychiatric expertise"? There are so many ways it can go wrong for you. Maybe they thought you said something you didn't. I was once accused of making suicidal statements that I never did - not even a matter of being misheard, but completely making up things that I had never said. Maybe you just seem twitchy or distracted or they think they see signs of some other symptom. Maybe they just decide to lie because they think they know best. I'm not claiming that every psych is out to get you, just that you really roll the dice when you talk to an unknown one. Hence the comparison to dealing with police. From my own experiences and people I've known, it gets worse when you aren't involved of your own free will or aren't the one directly paying for your own treatment. In your case, I'd be curious whether whichever working clinical psychiatrist that was assigned to this person also felt as strongly that they should be committed, and had similar lack of success doing so? Some non-anecdotal evidence either way would be more convincing, but this is the impression I've gotten considering the uniformity of experiences I've observed. Only one person I can think of actually felt they were helped by and had a positive experience with a psychiatric institution, and that was through a college health service. The only paper[1] I could find on it reports that "retrospectively, between 33% and 81% of patients regard the admission as justified and/or the treatment as beneficial," which is a uselessly broad range and could be used to conclude either way. [1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.2006.00823.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.2006....
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    I think you're remembering a time long past. The system doesn't work that way anymore. Committing someone against their will is no longer trivial or easy if even possible. You have to have evidence and it has to be an immediate threat like within a few days and it's f'ing hard. These people do not have the power you think they do anymore. The thing you're complaining about has already been fixed. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/07/mental-illness-civil-commitment/1814301/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/07/mental-...
    - goldbrick 11y ago
      You don't know what you're talking about. Joe Asshole can't lock random people in the hospital on psychiatric hold, but a psychiatrist can.
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        Only for a very short time and only with evidence they're a danger, and we aren't talking about joe asshole, and I know as much what I'm talking about as you do buddy. This isn't the world where a psychiatrist has that much unchecked power; it isn't the movies.
        pravda 11y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft#Raid_and_involuntary_commitment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft#Raid_and_in... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kamilah-brock-nypd-bmw_us_55f2c9aae4b063ecbfa3e60d http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kamilah-brock-nypd-bmw_u...
        gnaritas 11y ago
        Two instances of police corruption that have no relevance to this thread. In neither of those cases was the psychiatrist responsible and in both cases they were released within days. Dirty cops telling lies cause all sorts of problems, that's on them.
openasocket 11y ago
I'm sorry you've had this impression. It's not just violence, most of the time people are involuntarily committed if they are suicidal. I obviously have limited information, but perhaps those doctors who gave your friend anti-psychotics thought he/she was bipolar, or was not responding to anti-depressants? The atypical anti-psychotics are often the standard treatment for bipolar disorder, and are also used in cases of depression if SSRIs do not work. Again, I'm sorry you have gotten this impression. Both my parents are clinical psychologists; I can assure you that these cases are taken very seriously, and committing a patient is always a measure of last resort.

by qrendel 11y ago

gnaritas 11y ago

> I know several people who were committed against their will after as little as a cursory 5 minute conversation. Not to call you a liar, but quite simply I don't believe that. Having dealt with wanting to get someone committed against their will, I found it was all but impossible unless they're actively and obviously dangerous to themselves or others. > Clinical psychologists and psychiatrists weld a frightening amount of power They really don't. They can't just commit people because they talked to them and decided hey lock that guy up.

qrendel 11y ago
> They can't just commit people because they talked to them and decided hey lock that guy up. They're free to assess you however they want and then use that as an excuse. Who is going to argue with and stop them? The judge? Your lawyer? Someone else who lacks a medical degree and "psychiatric expertise"? There are so many ways it can go wrong for you. Maybe they thought you said something you didn't. I was once accused of making suicidal statements that I never did - not even a matter of being misheard, but completely making up things that I had never said. Maybe you just seem twitchy or distracted or they think they see signs of some other symptom. Maybe they just decide to lie because they think they know best. I'm not claiming that every psych is out to get you, just that you really roll the dice when you talk to an unknown one. Hence the comparison to dealing with police. From my own experiences and people I've known, it gets worse when you aren't involved of your own free will or aren't the one directly paying for your own treatment. In your case, I'd be curious whether whichever working clinical psychiatrist that was assigned to this person also felt as strongly that they should be committed, and had similar lack of success doing so? Some non-anecdotal evidence either way would be more convincing, but this is the impression I've gotten considering the uniformity of experiences I've observed. Only one person I can think of actually felt they were helped by and had a positive experience with a psychiatric institution, and that was through a college health service. The only paper[1] I could find on it reports that "retrospectively, between 33% and 81% of patients regard the admission as justified and/or the treatment as beneficial," which is a uselessly broad range and could be used to conclude either way. [1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.2006.00823.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.2006....
- gnaritas 11y ago
  I think you're remembering a time long past. The system doesn't work that way anymore. Committing someone against their will is no longer trivial or easy if even possible. You have to have evidence and it has to be an immediate threat like within a few days and it's f'ing hard. These people do not have the power you think they do anymore. The thing you're complaining about has already been fixed. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/07/mental-illness-civil-commitment/1814301/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/07/mental-...
  - goldbrick 11y ago
    You don't know what you're talking about. Joe Asshole can't lock random people in the hospital on psychiatric hold, but a psychiatrist can.
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      Only for a very short time and only with evidence they're a danger, and we aren't talking about joe asshole, and I know as much what I'm talking about as you do buddy. This isn't the world where a psychiatrist has that much unchecked power; it isn't the movies.
      - pravda 11y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft#Raid_and_involuntary_commitment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft#Raid_and_in... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kamilah-brock-nypd-bmw_us_55f2c9aae4b063ecbfa3e60d http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kamilah-brock-nypd-bmw_u...
        gnaritas 11y ago
        Two instances of police corruption that have no relevance to this thread. In neither of those cases was the psychiatrist responsible and in both cases they were released within days. Dirty cops telling lies cause all sorts of problems, that's on them.

openasocket 11y ago

I'm sorry you've had this impression. It's not just violence, most of the time people are involuntarily committed if they are suicidal. I obviously have limited information, but perhaps those doctors who gave your friend anti-psychotics thought he/she was bipolar, or was not responding to anti-depressants? The atypical anti-psychotics are often the standard treatment for bipolar disorder, and are also used in cases of depression if SSRIs do not work. Again, I'm sorry you have gotten this impression. Both my parents are clinical psychologists; I can assure you that these cases are taken very seriously, and committing a patient is always a measure of last resort.