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The polling is often done by randomly inserting Vizu polls into the page somewhere and hoping someone fills them out. Of course hardly anyone does - who can be

by throwaway198374 11y ago

The polling is often done by randomly inserting Vizu polls into the page somewhere and hoping someone fills them out. Of course hardly anyone does - who can be bothered? Still, they've managed to establish themselves as a credible third-party verifier (not saying they actually are credible - I know sometimes people running the campaign will fill these out to show that the campaign is working) Also, I'm not saying it's all fraudulent and doesn't work at all - of course if that were the case everyone would know. What I'm saying is that the brand is massively overpaying, because a large percentage of their delivery goes to fraudulent bot traffic. And it's pretty much in everyone's financial interest except the brand's to turn a blind eye. Also, it's important to know how campaigns are actually delivered: firstly, Sales sells something wildly optimistic like delivering 1m impressions a day to 45-50 y/o women in Florida. As time goes on and delivery can't be met we loosen the targeting parameters in order to "deliver in full" even though this delivery is no longer to the customers specifications. We might tell them we're doing that, or we might not and hope we get away with it. Then after the campaign we take whatever numbers we got and create a story out of it that makes us look good. If we're working with an agency we give it to them and they presumably spin it some more before presenting it to the customer.

mercer 11y ago
Okay, so this question is one I'd never ask in 'real life' without knowing you very well first, but I suppose it's different here because you're anonymous and free not to answer. But apologies anyways if it seems rude. Why do you do this work? You clearly know what you're doing; perhaps you're very good. And I won't presume to know your reasons or the underlying belief system that may or may not support it. But from my personal perspective, it sounds like hell to spend my productive days essentially just selling stuff. Is it that you believe in what you're selling? Is it that in your moral framework being good at this job trumps what seems like a bad way to spend your time? I'm truly asking out of curiosity, by the way. I'm a front-end developer and a significant portion of my work, when I work, is essentially dressing up ads with websites that don't add up to much of value (within the parameters of my own perspective on life). So judging you would be hypocrisy. But I'm actively unhappy about it, and any excitement I show involves the craft, and I'm looking into ways to apply my craft in ways meaningful to me. And I'm curious to know how this works for you.
- throwaway198374 11y ago
  It's a reasonable question. I am not against advertising per-se. I think there is some truth to the idea that advertising keeps the Internet free. It's also a part of the sales cycle that drives the economy, and keeps a lot of people in work. I think the fear of tracking is a little overblown, too - everything I've seen about tracking in my company is extremely focused on keeping user data anonymous (at least as much due to fear of a lawsuit and bad PR as out of ethical standards). I've never heard anyone suggest doing anything with that data other than trying to use it to deliver better results for our clients. We have massive amounts of tracking data, but we don't know who anyone is or where they live. We seem to try hard to keep it that way. Now, it may be possible for someone with sufficient access to take the data and figure out names and addresses, but we never even let that data into the system, and we have stringent, externally audited controls, so it would have to be a malicious act. You'd be out of a job in a heartbeat if you got caught doing that. So, I don't have a moral problem with the way my company in particular is using data. I think the fact that your mobile phone operator will sell your location is much more concerning. There are a lot companies in the ad tech space, and I'd bet a lot of them care a lot less than we do about personal user data. On the issue of fraud in particular I can truthfully say that I've only just become aware of it. I am an engineer on a small component of the platform. Communication between departments is not great, so I have been disconnected from the reality of how campaigns are run. It wasn't until I looked into our data while diagnosing another issue, and subsequently reached out to account management, sales etc that I realized what was going on. That was in the last few weeks. Since then the issue has blown up and we're working on a plan to deal with it. Whether that plan has teeth and is enacted will tell a lot about the willingness of the company to do the right thing for our customers. I'm cautiously optimistic, but that optimism is tempered by the general negative attitude toward transparency that I've seen from leadership in the company. I also am planning to leave the company before the end of the year. This is as much for personal reasons as work ones. The company is dysfunctional and oftentimes its own worst enemy. I wouldn't work for a company like this again, and would ideally stay out of ad tech entirely.
  - mercer 11y ago
    Thanks for the thorough reply. It's helpful!
brandnewlow 11y ago
Don't forget that a lot of this is often driven by the brand managers who want to grow their budgets. If it turns out that they can't spend $1m on "45-50 y/o women in Florida" in a quarter, then their budget will get trimmed appropriately, reducing their stature and sway in the organization. The fraud problem in digital advertising is a hard cycle to break when there's people on the brand-side helping encourage it.
- throwaway198374 11y ago
  Yes, this is 100% accurate. No-one wants their budget to shrink. Agencies will come to us at the end of the year with unspent client budget that they really don't want to give back, lest they be given less to spend the next year.

mercer 11y ago

Okay, so this question is one I'd never ask in 'real life' without knowing you very well first, but I suppose it's different here because you're anonymous and free not to answer. But apologies anyways if it seems rude. Why do you do this work? You clearly know what you're doing; perhaps you're very good. And I won't presume to know your reasons or the underlying belief system that may or may not support it. But from my personal perspective, it sounds like hell to spend my productive days essentially just selling stuff. Is it that you believe in what you're selling? Is it that in your moral framework being good at this job trumps what seems like a bad way to spend your time? I'm truly asking out of curiosity, by the way. I'm a front-end developer and a significant portion of my work, when I work, is essentially dressing up ads with websites that don't add up to much of value (within the parameters of my own perspective on life). So judging you would be hypocrisy. But I'm actively unhappy about it, and any excitement I show involves the craft, and I'm looking into ways to apply my craft in ways meaningful to me. And I'm curious to know how this works for you.

throwaway198374 11y ago
It's a reasonable question. I am not against advertising per-se. I think there is some truth to the idea that advertising keeps the Internet free. It's also a part of the sales cycle that drives the economy, and keeps a lot of people in work. I think the fear of tracking is a little overblown, too - everything I've seen about tracking in my company is extremely focused on keeping user data anonymous (at least as much due to fear of a lawsuit and bad PR as out of ethical standards). I've never heard anyone suggest doing anything with that data other than trying to use it to deliver better results for our clients. We have massive amounts of tracking data, but we don't know who anyone is or where they live. We seem to try hard to keep it that way. Now, it may be possible for someone with sufficient access to take the data and figure out names and addresses, but we never even let that data into the system, and we have stringent, externally audited controls, so it would have to be a malicious act. You'd be out of a job in a heartbeat if you got caught doing that. So, I don't have a moral problem with the way my company in particular is using data. I think the fact that your mobile phone operator will sell your location is much more concerning. There are a lot companies in the ad tech space, and I'd bet a lot of them care a lot less than we do about personal user data. On the issue of fraud in particular I can truthfully say that I've only just become aware of it. I am an engineer on a small component of the platform. Communication between departments is not great, so I have been disconnected from the reality of how campaigns are run. It wasn't until I looked into our data while diagnosing another issue, and subsequently reached out to account management, sales etc that I realized what was going on. That was in the last few weeks. Since then the issue has blown up and we're working on a plan to deal with it. Whether that plan has teeth and is enacted will tell a lot about the willingness of the company to do the right thing for our customers. I'm cautiously optimistic, but that optimism is tempered by the general negative attitude toward transparency that I've seen from leadership in the company. I also am planning to leave the company before the end of the year. This is as much for personal reasons as work ones. The company is dysfunctional and oftentimes its own worst enemy. I wouldn't work for a company like this again, and would ideally stay out of ad tech entirely.
- mercer 11y ago
  Thanks for the thorough reply. It's helpful!

brandnewlow 11y ago

Don't forget that a lot of this is often driven by the brand managers who want to grow their budgets. If it turns out that they can't spend $1m on "45-50 y/o women in Florida" in a quarter, then their budget will get trimmed appropriately, reducing their stature and sway in the organization. The fraud problem in digital advertising is a hard cycle to break when there's people on the brand-side helping encourage it.

throwaway198374 11y ago
Yes, this is 100% accurate. No-one wants their budget to shrink. Agencies will come to us at the end of the year with unspent client budget that they really don't want to give back, lest they be given less to spend the next year.