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So (and I'm guessing here because I really can't stand to click on a Vice link) that a lot of those PhDs are in bullshit fields like "national security studies"

So (and I'm guessing here because I really can't stand to click on a Vice link) that a lot of those PhDs are in bullshit fields like "national security studies" or similar?

emidln 11y ago
It seems worse than that from the article. A lot of PhDs are from non-accredited schools. Some of the PhDs are from a series of online "schools" that seem to be ran by the same man.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  Reminds me of a lot of mid-00s Army officers that I remember- a lot of the OCS crowd especially had bullshit online degrees from degree mills.
- PeterisP 11y ago
  Why would that be a motivation to get a PhD then? I mean, for any billing issue, if you're contracting out a person with a non-accredited PhD then they do not have an accredited PhD and representing it that way is simply fraud; and from the side of customer/government asking for data on any "PhDs" including self-proclaimed, instead of accredited degrees would be simply ridiculous.
huac 11y ago
here's the relevant image: https://news-images.vice.com/images/2016/01/27/doctors-of-doom-body-image-1453912893.jpg?resize=1000:*&output-quality=75 https://news-images.vice.com/images/2016/01/27/doctors-of-do... the analysis is pretty straightforward from there.
- gruez 11y ago
  What's the reason behind the rise of "business admin & mgmt"?
  - p4bl0 11y ago
    My guess would be that it is easier to bullshit a diploma in "business admin & mgmt" than in law, literature, or sciences for examples.
    - Nelson69 11y ago
      There is another axis that would be pretty interesting. I suspect that these "national security" types get a sizable and relatively automatic boost in pay for a PhD and it's likely not correlated to any performance or value. Top Secret America by Dana Priest (http://www.amazon.com/Top-Secret-America-American-Security/dp/0316182206/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454004076&sr=1-1&keywords=top+secret+america http://www.amazon.com/Top-Secret-America-American-Security/d...) is a somewhat interesting read on it. There are some politically angled results you can take from it but one of the most obvious non-political results is that the national security apparatus employs people that tend to be better paid, live in better areas and have all those benefits (better schools for their kids, less crime, etc..) They also seem to be disproportionately white men. If you squint your eyes just right, it looks an awful lot like a jobs program for white men. The book is a few years old but as I remember it I want to say the average pay for a top secret cleared generic 'analyst' was in the $150k+ range, more if you're in a valuable specialty. Then the real kicker, most of them justify their own jobs and contracts, oversight consists of reading that justification, which I guess isn't totally unusual for government work but since they're contractors it's a little odd.. It's not performance based.
volaski 11y ago
Why can't you stand to click on a vice link?
dcposch 11y ago
Vice runs vacuous clickbait sometimes, but they've gotten a LOT better in the last few years and they also do some excellent journalism now. In particular, their feature-length documentaries are consistently amazing, as is Vice on HBO. Shane Smith and Thomas Morton both have balls of titanium. They go places ordinary journalists would never go, figuratively and literally. Give them a second chance.
- sedachv 11y ago
  > Give them a second chance. That is exactly what compulsive liars/sociopaths like Shane Smith want: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/03/vice-founder-famous-for-truth-telling-has-history-of-lies/ http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/03/vice-founder-famous-for-tr... The documentaries and reporting produced by Vice are entertaining, but their standards of reporting basically make them a hipster tabloid.
  - dtornabene 11y ago
    A Couple of things.... 1) The Daily Caller isn't exactly a noted truth teller itself 2) The author of that particular piece, Charles Johnson, is well known for being utterly without scruples whatsoever. He's also one of the purveyors of the extremely offensive "cuckservative" meme that popped up recently (hint: its white supremacist) which leads to #3... 3) Gavin Mcinnes, one of the founders, left Vice under not particularly friendly circumstances and has since come out as a white nationalist and he and Chuck Johnson are pretty tight online. Just some food for thought here. Also, to back up the parent, yes, Vice does run a great deal of clickbait, but they also run things noone else will. I've read younger authors who I discovered on more mainstream sites that have had pieces published at Vice.
    - sedachv 11y ago
      It is not like that is the only report relating to Vice to raise suspicions: https://medium.com/thoughts-on-media/vice-media-kit-warning-for-advertisers-25ad0600f61d#.c539wnnoa https://medium.com/thoughts-on-media/vice-media-kit-warning-... http://gawker.com/working-at-vice-media-is-not-as-cool-as-it-seems-1579711577 http://gawker.com/working-at-vice-media-is-not-as-cool-as-it... > Gavin Mcinnes, one of the founders, left Vice under not particularly friendly circumstances and has since come out as a white nationalist and he and Chuck Johnson are pretty tight online. Just some food for thought here. You can tell a lot about a person from their cofounders. McInnes was at Vice from 1994 to 2007. Vice was built on shock journalism, McInnes never hid his racism and homophobia: http://www.nypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?avis=NP&date=20021008&category=NEWS&lopenr=310089998&Ref=AR&template=printart http://www.nypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?avis=NP&date=20...

So (and I'm guessing here because I really can't stand to click on a Vice link) that a lot of those PhDs are in bullshit fields like "national security studies" or similar?

emidln 11y ago

It seems worse than that from the article. A lot of PhDs are from non-accredited schools. Some of the PhDs are from a series of online "schools" that seem to be ran by the same man.

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
Reminds me of a lot of mid-00s Army officers that I remember- a lot of the OCS crowd especially had bullshit online degrees from degree mills.
PeterisP 11y ago
Why would that be a motivation to get a PhD then? I mean, for any billing issue, if you're contracting out a person with a non-accredited PhD then they do not have an accredited PhD and representing it that way is simply fraud; and from the side of customer/government asking for data on any "PhDs" including self-proclaimed, instead of accredited degrees would be simply ridiculous.

huac 11y ago

here's the relevant image: https://news-images.vice.com/images/2016/01/27/doctors-of-doom-body-image-1453912893.jpg?resize=1000:*&output-quality=75 https://news-images.vice.com/images/2016/01/27/doctors-of-do... the analysis is pretty straightforward from there.

gruez 11y ago
What's the reason behind the rise of "business admin & mgmt"?
- p4bl0 11y ago
  My guess would be that it is easier to bullshit a diploma in "business admin & mgmt" than in law, literature, or sciences for examples.
  - Nelson69 11y ago
    There is another axis that would be pretty interesting. I suspect that these "national security" types get a sizable and relatively automatic boost in pay for a PhD and it's likely not correlated to any performance or value. Top Secret America by Dana Priest (http://www.amazon.com/Top-Secret-America-American-Security/dp/0316182206/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454004076&sr=1-1&keywords=top+secret+america http://www.amazon.com/Top-Secret-America-American-Security/d...) is a somewhat interesting read on it. There are some politically angled results you can take from it but one of the most obvious non-political results is that the national security apparatus employs people that tend to be better paid, live in better areas and have all those benefits (better schools for their kids, less crime, etc..) They also seem to be disproportionately white men. If you squint your eyes just right, it looks an awful lot like a jobs program for white men. The book is a few years old but as I remember it I want to say the average pay for a top secret cleared generic 'analyst' was in the $150k+ range, more if you're in a valuable specialty. Then the real kicker, most of them justify their own jobs and contracts, oversight consists of reading that justification, which I guess isn't totally unusual for government work but since they're contractors it's a little odd.. It's not performance based.

volaski 11y ago

Why can't you stand to click on a vice link?

dcposch 11y ago

Vice runs vacuous clickbait sometimes, but they've gotten a LOT better in the last few years and they also do some excellent journalism now. In particular, their feature-length documentaries are consistently amazing, as is Vice on HBO. Shane Smith and Thomas Morton both have balls of titanium. They go places ordinary journalists would never go, figuratively and literally. Give them a second chance.

sedachv 11y ago
> Give them a second chance. That is exactly what compulsive liars/sociopaths like Shane Smith want: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/03/vice-founder-famous-for-truth-telling-has-history-of-lies/ http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/03/vice-founder-famous-for-tr... The documentaries and reporting produced by Vice are entertaining, but their standards of reporting basically make them a hipster tabloid.
- dtornabene 11y ago
  A Couple of things.... 1) The Daily Caller isn't exactly a noted truth teller itself 2) The author of that particular piece, Charles Johnson, is well known for being utterly without scruples whatsoever. He's also one of the purveyors of the extremely offensive "cuckservative" meme that popped up recently (hint: its white supremacist) which leads to #3... 3) Gavin Mcinnes, one of the founders, left Vice under not particularly friendly circumstances and has since come out as a white nationalist and he and Chuck Johnson are pretty tight online. Just some food for thought here. Also, to back up the parent, yes, Vice does run a great deal of clickbait, but they also run things noone else will. I've read younger authors who I discovered on more mainstream sites that have had pieces published at Vice.
  - sedachv 11y ago
    It is not like that is the only report relating to Vice to raise suspicions: https://medium.com/thoughts-on-media/vice-media-kit-warning-for-advertisers-25ad0600f61d#.c539wnnoa https://medium.com/thoughts-on-media/vice-media-kit-warning-... http://gawker.com/working-at-vice-media-is-not-as-cool-as-it-seems-1579711577 http://gawker.com/working-at-vice-media-is-not-as-cool-as-it... > Gavin Mcinnes, one of the founders, left Vice under not particularly friendly circumstances and has since come out as a white nationalist and he and Chuck Johnson are pretty tight online. Just some food for thought here. You can tell a lot about a person from their cofounders. McInnes was at Vice from 1994 to 2007. Vice was built on shock journalism, McInnes never hid his racism and homophobia: http://www.nypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?avis=NP&date=20021008&category=NEWS&lopenr=310089998&Ref=AR&template=printart http://www.nypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?avis=NP&date=20...