4 ms·

> new regulations are going into effect later this year that will allow the production of replica cars without requiring them to meet safety guidelines involvin

> new regulations are going into effect later this year that will allow the production of replica cars without requiring them to meet safety guidelines involving air bags and crash tests. This regulation may need some tweaking to stop abuse.

mikeash 11y ago
According to this, the new regulations limit such replicas to 325 cars per year per company: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/08/new-law-vintage-cars/ http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/08/new-law-vintage-cars/ Doesn't sound like much room for abuse.
- Avshalom 11y ago
  So you set up a factory that "leases" it's manufacturing capacity to any paying company then start 10-100 corps that are all just coincidently making replicas of the same car and all "leasing" the factory in sequence. I mean I don't know why you'd do that but it is the obvious work around
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I doubt the law is that stupid, and judges tend to frown on shenanigans like this.
    - Avshalom 11y ago
      Well the law says[1]: Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for introduction in interstate commerce ... unless the vehicle or equipment complies with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under section 30115 of this title. which according to [2] has been ammended with: (A) LOW-VOLUME MANUFACTURER- The term `low-volume manufacturer' means a motor vehicle manufacturer, other than a person who is registered as an importer under section 30141 of this title, whose annual worldwide production, including by a parent or subsidiary of the manufacturer, if applicable, is not more than 5,000 motor vehicles. So assuming the various shell companies aren't owned by each other it just depends on whether the factory's owner is manufacturing the car or the company leasing the factory. The definition[3] of manufacturer says "person -- (A) manufacturing or assembling motor vehicles" which doesn't give a lot of guidance on that because these laws are clearly aimed at the corporate person not the individual assembly line workers (who would of course be employed by a temp-agency). I mean not that it matters much. They still have to be 25 year old models and any IP has to be correctly licensed (which would mean getting the companies to sign off on a deal with a probably very high dodginess/profit ratio) I don't see any one trying to make or succeeding to sell 10000 '89 Ford Ranger clones. That said you're absolutely right that if it ever got to court the judges would pierce the veil like * that * [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30112 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30112 [2]http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&dbname=cp114&refer=&r_n=hr357.114&item=&&&sel=TOC_1393421& http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&dbname=cp114&refer=&... [3]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30102 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30102
      - TylerE 11y ago
        But there are quite a few companies churning out "replica" Ford Cobras, GT40s, Lamborghini Countachs and the like
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Thanks for looking up the actual law. Does the inclusion of "by a parent" mean that the companies would all need to have separate ownership, so you'd have to go recruit a bunch of friends into the scheme?
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
I feel sorry for the person who will inevitably be killed.
bsder 11y ago
Not really. This is already in effect in a de facto way. The specialty builders tend to grab cars from pre-1973(I think) since they are grandfathered in and don't have to pass safety, emission, crash, etc. I suspect that many builders might be able to pass some of these regulations, but the need to be "grandfathered" stops a lot of the possibilities. It will be interesting to see if some form of "standard" chassis emerges that actually can pass the regulations.
- ams6110 11y ago
  In the context of the number of new cars manufactured and sold every year, the amount of kit or specialty customs is not worth worrying about.

mikeash 11y ago

According to this, the new regulations limit such replicas to 325 cars per year per company: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/08/new-law-vintage-cars/ http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/08/new-law-vintage-cars/ Doesn't sound like much room for abuse.

Avshalom 11y ago
So you set up a factory that "leases" it's manufacturing capacity to any paying company then start 10-100 corps that are all just coincidently making replicas of the same car and all "leasing" the factory in sequence. I mean I don't know why you'd do that but it is the obvious work around
- mikeash 11y ago
  I doubt the law is that stupid, and judges tend to frown on shenanigans like this.
  - Avshalom 11y ago
    Well the law says[1]: Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for introduction in interstate commerce ... unless the vehicle or equipment complies with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under section 30115 of this title. which according to [2] has been ammended with: (A) LOW-VOLUME MANUFACTURER- The term `low-volume manufacturer' means a motor vehicle manufacturer, other than a person who is registered as an importer under section 30141 of this title, whose annual worldwide production, including by a parent or subsidiary of the manufacturer, if applicable, is not more than 5,000 motor vehicles. So assuming the various shell companies aren't owned by each other it just depends on whether the factory's owner is manufacturing the car or the company leasing the factory. The definition[3] of manufacturer says "person -- (A) manufacturing or assembling motor vehicles" which doesn't give a lot of guidance on that because these laws are clearly aimed at the corporate person not the individual assembly line workers (who would of course be employed by a temp-agency). I mean not that it matters much. They still have to be 25 year old models and any IP has to be correctly licensed (which would mean getting the companies to sign off on a deal with a probably very high dodginess/profit ratio) I don't see any one trying to make or succeeding to sell 10000 '89 Ford Ranger clones. That said you're absolutely right that if it ever got to court the judges would pierce the veil like * that * [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30112 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30112 [2]http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&dbname=cp114&refer=&r_n=hr357.114&item=&&&sel=TOC_1393421& http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&dbname=cp114&refer=&... [3]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30102 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30102
    - TylerE 11y ago
      But there are quite a few companies churning out "replica" Ford Cobras, GT40s, Lamborghini Countachs and the like
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Thanks for looking up the actual law. Does the inclusion of "by a parent" mean that the companies would all need to have separate ownership, so you'd have to go recruit a bunch of friends into the scheme?

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

I feel sorry for the person who will inevitably be killed.

bsder 11y ago

Not really. This is already in effect in a de facto way. The specialty builders tend to grab cars from pre-1973(I think) since they are grandfathered in and don't have to pass safety, emission, crash, etc. I suspect that many builders might be able to pass some of these regulations, but the need to be "grandfathered" stops a lot of the possibilities. It will be interesting to see if some form of "standard" chassis emerges that actually can pass the regulations.

ams6110 11y ago
In the context of the number of new cars manufactured and sold every year, the amount of kit or specialty customs is not worth worrying about.