6 ms·
I am actually not sure that this is true. I used to think exactly like you, that rotations are just piles of small translations with time varying directions, bu
by danbruc 11y ago
I am actually not sure that this is true. I used to think exactly like you, that rotations are just piles of small translations with time varying directions, but there is a problem with this, linear momentum and angular momentum are two different conserved quantities. If it were the case that rotations are just translations then you should be able to get rid of angular momentum and its conservation and explain it in terms of linear momentum and I don't think that you can do that. Linear momentum is tied to the homogeneity of space while angular momentum is tight to the isotropy of space. You could actually do the exact opposite, say that translations are just rotations about a point infinitely far away, but I think that won't work either. I really don't know for sure, I mean I am not really, really, really confident about it, but as far as I can tell rotations and translations are fundamentally different.
Unaccelerated translations make only sense as relations between two objects but you don't need any reference to detect acceleration, you can just release an object from your hand and see if it drops to the floor because of gravity, hits the wall behind you because your space ship is accelerating or flies away tangentially because you are on a carousel. Rotation requires continuous acceleration (I am avoiding the term constant acceleration because only the magnitude is constant but not the direction) of all the particles towards the center of rotation or otherwise they would fly away tangentially. But if rotation requires continuous acceleration and you can always detect acceleration without reference to some other outside objects then you can always detect rotations and that is not true for translations, you can not detect unaccelerated translations.
It is the difference between velocities and accelerations and the fact that rotations always require accelerations that makes rotations more than just a pile of translations. You won't notice any difference if you translate everything in space by the same amount, you won't see any change if you rotate everything in space by the same amount, there is also no difference if you change the velocity of everything by the same amount but you will immediately notice if you change the acceleration of everything.
Or maybe that is at least partially nonsense, unfortunately I haven't yet mastered that topic myself.
- colordrops 11y agoAngular momentum is an abstract concept, and an emergent property. It doesn't exist inherently in an object.
- danbruc 11y agoSpin angular momentum seems to be a pretty intrinsic property of (fundamental) particles. What do you understand as inherent properties of objects? Position? Charge? Mass? Velocity? Energy? Linear momentum? Spin? And why? What if the object is composite? What about quantum physics, e.g. superposition states?
- yaks_hairbrush 11y agoThe angular momentum of a spinning bucket of water has approximately nothing to do with the intrinsic angular momentum of the particles, though. Statistically, we'd expect all of the intrinsic spins of the electrons and quarks to cancel out entirely. Rather, the angular momentum is due to the fact that the straight-line motion of all the atoms on the left side of the bucket is opposite in direction to the straight-line motions of all the atoms on the right side of the bucket. (With respect to the reference frame of the center of gravity of the bucket, etc, etc.)
- danbruc 11y agoThey are nonetheless related, if you would align the spins in the water and the (metal) bucket you would make the bucket and/or water spin to conserve the angular momentum. [1] They are surly different but it is not some accident of history that both are called angular momentum, they are really both angular momentum. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein–de_Haas_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein–de_Haas_effect
- yaks_hairbrush 11y agoWhat is the point you're arguing against? I know perfectly well that conservation of angular momentum is a thing. I know perfectly well that the intrinsic property that we call 'spin' of an electron is really angular momentum. I know that a spinning bucket also has real angular momentum. So, I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. The central point made by colordrops is that angular momentum in a macroscopic object is 100% (accurate to at least ten decimal places) due to synchronicity of linear momenta.