4 ms·

Bernie Sanders at the recent town hall meeting asked for someone to tell a story of their struggles. A woman in tears told of how hard it was to get by on $10k

Bernie Sanders at the recent town hall meeting asked for someone to tell a story of their struggles. A woman in tears told of how hard it was to get by on $10k to $12k a year. It makes me wonder. How happy will people who only get basic income be? How easy or difficult will it be for them to get simple work for a little extra income? Now there is a big difference in getting $10k for free vs scraping it together from 4 different crappy jobs. But still I wonder. I came away from that story less confident in basic income that I previously was.

glibgil 11y ago
Why shouldn't basic income be $36,000?
- forrestthewoods 11y ago
  Why shouldn't basic income be $100,000? Most napkin math proposal for basic income are between $10,000 and $15,000. That's quite hard to make work but it's maaaayyybbeee posssibly achievable. It's at the outer limit of doable but meaningful. In the US 36k per person would account for 66% of GDP. It'd be 85% of GDP in France. These are not viable figures.
  - arebop 11y ago
    It shouldn't be $100k because that exceeds mean income, and we don't have strong evidence about how much BI improves productivity. I think the reason most proposals are well below the mean is that we prefer a modest effective intervention, and the desired effect is to remove the hardship of poverty, not to achieve perfect income equality.
- DominikR 11y ago
  10.000$ per person in the US would cost 3.19 trillion dollars per year. 36.000$ would cost the taxpayer 11.484 trillion dollars per year. The US governments actual revenue for 2015 has been 3.249 trillion dollars.
- honksillet 11y ago
  The number is arbitrary. The net effect would be the same just differing in degrees... inflation, decrease productivity of the economy as a whole, and downward pressure on the middle class. It would have negligible effect on the problem of inequality with the 1% and above.
Nadya 11y ago
The idea of basic income is to provide something. Enough money to ride public transport. Enough money to rent a room (location dependent, but even in my neighborhood rooms can be $300-$600/mo). Enough to buy food. It is a lot easier to look for a job when you aren't spending your entire day trying to stay out of the sun and scrounge up enough money to eat. It's a lot easier to look for a job when you don't have to choose between food and public transport. It is very difficult to scrounge up enough money to take care of the basics while job searching. It isn't impossible but it is very, very hard. Basic income helps to prevent people from falling that low. If you were moved by a woman struggling on $10k~, try listening to the struggles of the homeless in your area. If you are fortunate not to have any in your area - go to somewhere you know they are. Just talk to them for an hour, it'll change your perspective a bit. My biggest issue with BI is the logistics behind it. To get it to work is complicated, seemingly prone to corruption, and possibly not sustainable. But it is going to be necessary to figure it out in the coming decades, IMO.
jessaustin 11y ago
With basic income, that woman could quit her current stressful job, get a better job that only pays $9k, and be wealthier and happier with the resulting $19k income.
- forrestthewoods 11y ago
  Yes. I said that in my comment as well.
- DominikR 11y ago
  The basic income that woman would receive is government revenue from taxes. If too many do what you propose then the governments revenue is reduced. How should the government then fund the next years basic income?

glibgil 11y ago

Why shouldn't basic income be $36,000?

forrestthewoods 11y ago
Why shouldn't basic income be $100,000? Most napkin math proposal for basic income are between $10,000 and $15,000. That's quite hard to make work but it's maaaayyybbeee posssibly achievable. It's at the outer limit of doable but meaningful. In the US 36k per person would account for 66% of GDP. It'd be 85% of GDP in France. These are not viable figures.
- arebop 11y ago
  It shouldn't be $100k because that exceeds mean income, and we don't have strong evidence about how much BI improves productivity. I think the reason most proposals are well below the mean is that we prefer a modest effective intervention, and the desired effect is to remove the hardship of poverty, not to achieve perfect income equality.
DominikR 11y ago
10.000$ per person in the US would cost 3.19 trillion dollars per year. 36.000$ would cost the taxpayer 11.484 trillion dollars per year. The US governments actual revenue for 2015 has been 3.249 trillion dollars.
honksillet 11y ago
The number is arbitrary. The net effect would be the same just differing in degrees... inflation, decrease productivity of the economy as a whole, and downward pressure on the middle class. It would have negligible effect on the problem of inequality with the 1% and above.

Nadya 11y ago

The idea of basic income is to provide something. Enough money to ride public transport. Enough money to rent a room (location dependent, but even in my neighborhood rooms can be $300-$600/mo). Enough to buy food. It is a lot easier to look for a job when you aren't spending your entire day trying to stay out of the sun and scrounge up enough money to eat. It's a lot easier to look for a job when you don't have to choose between food and public transport. It is very difficult to scrounge up enough money to take care of the basics while job searching. It isn't impossible but it is very, very hard. Basic income helps to prevent people from falling that low. If you were moved by a woman struggling on $10k~, try listening to the struggles of the homeless in your area. If you are fortunate not to have any in your area - go to somewhere you know they are. Just talk to them for an hour, it'll change your perspective a bit. My biggest issue with BI is the logistics behind it. To get it to work is complicated, seemingly prone to corruption, and possibly not sustainable. But it is going to be necessary to figure it out in the coming decades, IMO.

jessaustin 11y ago

With basic income, that woman could quit her current stressful job, get a better job that only pays $9k, and be wealthier and happier with the resulting $19k income.

forrestthewoods 11y ago
Yes. I said that in my comment as well.
DominikR 11y ago
The basic income that woman would receive is government revenue from taxes. If too many do what you propose then the governments revenue is reduced. How should the government then fund the next years basic income?