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This is almost exactly the way I learn. After years of doing it the "traditional" way (ex. reading an entire book on a language), I realized that I was mostly

This is almost exactly the way I learn. After years of doing it the "traditional" way (ex. reading an entire book on a language), I realized that I was mostly wasting my time. The only way to really learn is to try to solve a real problem that you will benefit from directly. Book exercises are boring and will ruin your motivation. I think the idea of staying in a tight edit/test loop is good too. I tend to make lots of typographical/syntax errors that can be a nightmare to debug if you're having to scan many lines of newly written code. If you're only writing a few lines at a time and then testing, finding errors is much faster.

mechanical_fish 19y ago
Book exercises are boring and will ruin your motivation. I would agree with you about 95% of the computer books on the market. But, if you find the shortest and least pedantic books, they can be really helpful. Greenspun had a fun rant about how book publishers insist on producing gigantic doorstopper books in the style of Learn Blub in 21 Days -- 850 pages, only about 150 of which are actually useful, and the rest of which consist of tedious examples and filler material and stdlib documentation which you'd much rather just look up online when you actually need it. He argued that, e.g., Cooper's About Face was a good 125-page book trapped in the body of a 600-page book. Of course, I've already admitted on this thread that I haven't really read K&R, so I can't speak from experience, but I've heard it said that K&R is the essence of a great language book: it's short. It doesn't feel the need to seem heavy in order to seem important.
- xirium 19y ago
  > Learn Blub in 21 Days I find these books really objectionable. They propagate bad practice and minimal understanding. Furthermore, the type of people who need to Learn Blub in 21 Days are in headless chicken mode - they've got less than 21 days and they don't RTFM. Another objection is the cookie-cutter approach to the teaching which may work for some but frustrates if you want to understand underlaying rules. If I had 21 days to learn French, then I'd start with the grammar. This phrase-book approach to programming gives you 20% of the benefit after exerting 80% of the effort. The 80-20 rule is suppused to work the other way. You're supposed to get 80% of the benefit from 20% of the effort. > K&R I read some of the first edition of K&R and I found it enlightening because they'd written it for the benefit of other C compiler writers. Furthermore, the first edition is a snapshot during development and they're quite candid about unfinished features. It also gives tips on programming style. Ignore these tips and you'll discover the cost later.
- icky 19y ago
  > K&R is the essence of a great language book: it's short. s/book//

mechanical_fish 19y ago

Book exercises are boring and will ruin your motivation. I would agree with you about 95% of the computer books on the market. But, if you find the shortest and least pedantic books, they can be really helpful. Greenspun had a fun rant about how book publishers insist on producing gigantic doorstopper books in the style of Learn Blub in 21 Days -- 850 pages, only about 150 of which are actually useful, and the rest of which consist of tedious examples and filler material and stdlib documentation which you'd much rather just look up online when you actually need it. He argued that, e.g., Cooper's About Face was a good 125-page book trapped in the body of a 600-page book. Of course, I've already admitted on this thread that I haven't really read K&R, so I can't speak from experience, but I've heard it said that K&R is the essence of a great language book: it's short. It doesn't feel the need to seem heavy in order to seem important.

xirium 19y ago
> Learn Blub in 21 Days I find these books really objectionable. They propagate bad practice and minimal understanding. Furthermore, the type of people who need to Learn Blub in 21 Days are in headless chicken mode - they've got less than 21 days and they don't RTFM. Another objection is the cookie-cutter approach to the teaching which may work for some but frustrates if you want to understand underlaying rules. If I had 21 days to learn French, then I'd start with the grammar. This phrase-book approach to programming gives you 20% of the benefit after exerting 80% of the effort. The 80-20 rule is suppused to work the other way. You're supposed to get 80% of the benefit from 20% of the effort. > K&R I read some of the first edition of K&R and I found it enlightening because they'd written it for the benefit of other C compiler writers. Furthermore, the first edition is a snapshot during development and they're quite candid about unfinished features. It also gives tips on programming style. Ignore these tips and you'll discover the cost later.
icky 19y ago
> K&R is the essence of a great language book: it's short. s/book//