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"Money won’t make you happy" I disagree with this. I've been running my own company for a little over 5 years. Not having to worry about my rent and being ab

"Money won’t make you happy" I disagree with this. I've been running my own company for a little over 5 years. Not having to worry about my rent and being able to live a comfortable lifestyle has made me really happy. If I made $100 million and didn't ever have to worry about money again, I definitely would be happier. It's the peace of mind that I'm working toward. But, the money isn't the main thing that makes me happy. The development challenges and systems that I build to run my company is what I really enjoy. The money is just a nice side-effect. I agree with the rest of the article. I had an ex-business partner that got his idea of a startup from the stories he sees online. Everything we did had to 'change the world', regardless of the business model or practicality. I had many hours of discussions about this and had to continually convince him we needed some sort of business model. His response was always: "We will get funding"...with no users, traffic, business model, or a decent MVP. At some point I finally convinced him and as soon as it got down to the hard work, and he didn't see immediate results, he got discouraged. He thought that somehow if we just built something, we would have thousands of users in a couple of weeks. I realized that even if whatever we worked on succeeded, he probably wouldn't be a good fit in the next stage of the company and I would be spending more and more of my time fighting these ideas. I had to end the partnership and he ended up getting a job. Not everyone should own a business.

NiftyFifty 11y ago
It's a pretty simple principle between the happy curve and where it intersects with the financial stability curve. However, the opposite can be very true as well. Namely, poverty as it plays out on the social ills that we in the United States have - most notable, are minorities and the lack / motivation of the government to cure this problem. I believe there is some paradigm where happy can be achieved if the work/happy ratio is subsidized through social programs lowering the happy curve (or at least tolerance) because of the work requirements to achieve the financial base to maintain that curve. It's an interesting problem, but overwhelming it causes desperation and by a minor extension drug / alcohol abuse / crime syndication, and violence (domestic abuse and gun deaths in particular). The upward mobility is one thing, but an opposite paradigm is also a very interesting dynamic with respect to if money can or cannot by happiness. However, your example of "owning your own company" is also a self-confidence motivator that is a game changer. :) That's why we need a minority middle class to fix poverty, IMHO.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
um_ya 11y ago
I had a similar experience with a company I'm currently working on. This particular individual liked to "think big thoughts", but when it came to doing the work he would always find an excuse of why he couldn't do it or he had "previous plans". We later decided to work on the project without him. We never looked back.
AndrewKemendo 11y ago
Money won’t make you happy I have always hated this saying because it's worthless without the context of who is getting the money. I grew up poor - money definitely made us happy because we could afford to move out of my aunt or my grandmother's house. Everyone loves to cite the study that "above $75,000/year money doesn't make you happier" - without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing returns above that point (standard economic marginal utility concept), not that overall happiness goes down. The reality is that more money gives you different problems, not more problems and in fact opens up a world of opportunities that can keep generations beyond you above that $75,000/year mark. Money is about what it enables and that is where happiness comes from. As a wise man once said: "Money can't buy happiness [but it can buy] a WaveRunner. Have you ever seen a sad person on a WaveRunner?"
- joelrunyon 11y ago
  > As a wise man once said: I'm pretty sure this was Daniel Tosh - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RoLdkgjKhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RoLdkgjKhs
- the_af 11y ago
  > without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing returns above that point But I thought everyone got that point. It's not as if people thought every additional dollar brought them misery. People who quote this understand that you don't need this additional money, and that the effort/sacrifices to get it are not worth it.
  - xixi77 11y ago
    Sure, I take it that they don't need it. But they do not know if you, or me, or anyone else needs it, and whether the effort is worth it for others, and really shouldn't pretend that they do.
    - the_af 11y ago
      The point is precisely that nobody "needs" millions of dollars. That kind of money is well beyond the point of having the peace of mind you'll never go hungry or stop having a comfortable standard of living.
Disruptive_Dave 11y ago
My temporal self is jumping at this - if money "makes" you happy, then you are acquiescing to the concept that the removal of said money will "make" you unhappy. That can be problematic. [I realize I'm removing this from the context of work/income, I'm just indulging my mood this morning..carry on!]
- jon-wood 11y ago
  I don't think it unrealistic to say that the removal of money (at least at certain levels) is going to make you unhappy. In the worst case all your money is removed, you can't make rent, and get kicked out. Now you're homeless, and either sleeping on people's couches or the street, and I bet you wouldn't be smiling in that situation.
Mimu 11y ago
As my dad says (I don't know if it's from him or somebody else but who cares): It's better to have rich issues than poors issues.
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  Or put it another way, money doesn't buy happiness but it lets you be miserable in comfort.
- antod 11y ago
  I remember a Burt Reynolds interview (with Ruby Wax I think) when he said something like "I've been poor and miserable, and I've been rich and miserable - I'll take being rich and miserable any time". Nothing exactly earth shattering there, it just stuck in my mind for some reason.
beachstartup 11y ago
the same exact lessons can be applied to any long-term goal such as fitness / weight loss. some people "get it", others just don't.
ommunist 11y ago
Not everyone can run the business. I tried, and I can say I do not have enough guts to do do that hard things you should do sometimes. Like breaking promises, firing nice, but toxic to your business people, and many more unpleasant stunts.
kazinator 11y ago
"Money won't make you happy" is someone's naive, illogical reversal of the underlying, relevant truth: Lack of money will make you fucking miserable. Sure, just because luck of money will make you fucking miserable doesn't mean that the abundance of money will solve all your problems and make you happy. However, that is largely irrelevant because most people don't even have that "problem". Someone could hear that silly adage thousands of times throughout his life, and never find out first-hand whether it is true. Proverbs and adages should have broad applicability. The saying "money won't buy you happiness" (and its various other versions) has a purpose: it expresses a kind of exasperated defeatism over not having money and trying to be content anyway. It's a version of the human behavior which is exposed in that true piece of wisdom known as the Sour Grapes Fable. The fox cannot reach the grapes, so they are declared sour (i..e If I did reach those grapes, it wouldn't make me happy, because they are sour! We just have to identify the struggle for grapes with money. Most of the time this "cannot buy happiness" adage is not only heard by those who will never experience first-hand whether it is true, but also uttered by those in the same boat. There is a universal truth in it and it is that there exists a human predicament of not being satisified with what one has. It's not always possessions. Someone who has lots of possessions might be dissatisfied with something else in their life, and not necessarily the quantity of stuff. Perhaps he or she seeks to be more learned or skilled in something, or to have a different personality. Or to make some mark in the world other than being remembered as someone who had lots of stuff. I can tell you that if you have more money you will be happier in a sense, but you will still strive to achieve some other satisfactions.
the_af 11y ago
The full quote is "money won't make you happy (within reason)". I agree with this. Once you cover basic needs and some luxuries (say, a car, a nice house, the possibility to travel and pay for the education of your kids; add or subtract whatever floats your particular boat), additional money won't buy you more happiness. The kind of money that affords you these luxuries also gives you peace of mind. You can always scale back in difficult times, and it won't hurt you much. Having huge amounts of money won't make you happier -- you'd be well past the "peace of mind" stage at that point -- unless your most desired goal in life is to be a billionaire philantropist like Bill Gates. Or a power player in the world's economy. Or swimming in a pool of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck, I guess.
unabst 11y ago
What you're saying is "Money won't make you happy, but a lack of it will" which is a more accurate statement that doesn't necessarily contradict the shorter version. And this is what most talk about when using similar lines anyway. You admit development is where you find joy. You could be doing this broke if you didn't need money, but you do for rent etc. So the first step in happiness is to find how much money you need to be able to forget about it. If your goal is to be able to forget about something, it's certainly not something making you happy. It's what makes you miserable, but only when you lack it. This makes money like water or electricity. Lack of it would make us miserable. But beyond what we need, we cease to think about it. We practically have infinite water coming from our taps, and more than enough electricity we need. But it's the quenching of thirst, the long baths, the phone charging, the computer that's always on... these are the only things that could possibly make us happy. Resources don't necessarily make us happy or miserable. They're just enablers.
metaphorm 11y ago
> If I made $100 million and didn't ever have to worry about money again, I definitely would be happier. so actually you agree, money won't make you happy. its something you worry about now and the prospect of not worrying about it is what would make you happy. you probably don't need anywhere even close to $100 million to have enough money so you won't have to worry about it anymore. unless your lifestyle is lavish and decadent even $10 million is quite a lot. collecting just 2% annual interest on that (a very modest figure, available from pretty safe investments) would yield $200,000 annual income, which is more than most people get paid in salary from a 9-5 job. more to the point though is that everything you described is either 1) feeling relieved from not having to worry about the crushing effects of potentially falling into poverty or 2) feeling interested and engaged in the work itself. I think you actually made a pretty convincing argument _against_ your own thesis here. Money can't make you happy, but lack of money (i.e. poverty) can make you very very unhappy. Things that can actually make you happy are generally not for sale.
wdr1 11y ago
I've always viewed it as "The lack of money can make you unhappy, but money itself can't make you happy." Or put another way, money can be a demotivator, but not a motivator.
tomcam 11y ago
Yep. Grew up insecure & not rich. Now own my own house outright, work for myself, and can afford our exceptionally high medical insurance. Am much, much happier knowing the house is mine and that I can afford to repair it. Unlike my family as I grew up, we don't have to leave pots under holes in the sealing for years at a time because we can't afford roof repair. Am much happier knowing I can't be fired by a stupid boss. Money has made me much happier.
LordKano 11y ago
Money won’t make you happy This is true but misleading. Nothing external makes you happy. As cheesy as it may sound, happiness comes from within. That being said, having money can ease some of the stresses that weigh upon us and make us unhappy. Moreover, it's the kind of thing that is said by people who either have a lot of money already or have no chance of ever having a lot of money. For those of us in the middle, it's a patronizing and frustrating platitude.
glangdale 11y ago
$100M now? Some people are apparently harder to please than the sage and former governor of California: "Money doesn't make you happy. I now have $50 million but I was just as happy when I had $48 million." - Arnold Schwarzenegger This is, of course, a joke, but there is clearly a couple thresholds that are decisive: the first around the point of "no longer need to work immediately" and the second at "no longer need to work at all if one is willing to have a modest retirement". I suspect that if one is sort of person who thinks that $20M or $100M is a important further threshold for some calculation ("all of my descendants will be able to go to college, for the next 12 generations" or "I need to be able to buy anything that I can current conceive of wanting") there's probably no real end to it.

NiftyFifty 11y ago

It's a pretty simple principle between the happy curve and where it intersects with the financial stability curve. However, the opposite can be very true as well. Namely, poverty as it plays out on the social ills that we in the United States have - most notable, are minorities and the lack / motivation of the government to cure this problem. I believe there is some paradigm where happy can be achieved if the work/happy ratio is subsidized through social programs lowering the happy curve (or at least tolerance) because of the work requirements to achieve the financial base to maintain that curve. It's an interesting problem, but overwhelming it causes desperation and by a minor extension drug / alcohol abuse / crime syndication, and violence (domestic abuse and gun deaths in particular). The upward mobility is one thing, but an opposite paradigm is also a very interesting dynamic with respect to if money can or cannot by happiness. However, your example of "owning your own company" is also a self-confidence motivator that is a game changer. :) That's why we need a minority middle class to fix poverty, IMHO.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

um_ya 11y ago

I had a similar experience with a company I'm currently working on. This particular individual liked to "think big thoughts", but when it came to doing the work he would always find an excuse of why he couldn't do it or he had "previous plans". We later decided to work on the project without him. We never looked back.

AndrewKemendo 11y ago

Money won’t make you happy I have always hated this saying because it's worthless without the context of who is getting the money. I grew up poor - money definitely made us happy because we could afford to move out of my aunt or my grandmother's house. Everyone loves to cite the study that "above $75,000/year money doesn't make you happier" - without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing returns above that point (standard economic marginal utility concept), not that overall happiness goes down. The reality is that more money gives you different problems, not more problems and in fact opens up a world of opportunities that can keep generations beyond you above that $75,000/year mark. Money is about what it enables and that is where happiness comes from. As a wise man once said: "Money can't buy happiness [but it can buy] a WaveRunner. Have you ever seen a sad person on a WaveRunner?"

joelrunyon 11y ago
> As a wise man once said: I'm pretty sure this was Daniel Tosh - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RoLdkgjKhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RoLdkgjKhs
the_af 11y ago
> without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing returns above that point But I thought everyone got that point. It's not as if people thought every additional dollar brought them misery. People who quote this understand that you don't need this additional money, and that the effort/sacrifices to get it are not worth it.
- xixi77 11y ago
  Sure, I take it that they don't need it. But they do not know if you, or me, or anyone else needs it, and whether the effort is worth it for others, and really shouldn't pretend that they do.
  - the_af 11y ago
    The point is precisely that nobody "needs" millions of dollars. That kind of money is well beyond the point of having the peace of mind you'll never go hungry or stop having a comfortable standard of living.

Disruptive_Dave 11y ago

My temporal self is jumping at this - if money "makes" you happy, then you are acquiescing to the concept that the removal of said money will "make" you unhappy. That can be problematic. [I realize I'm removing this from the context of work/income, I'm just indulging my mood this morning..carry on!]

jon-wood 11y ago
I don't think it unrealistic to say that the removal of money (at least at certain levels) is going to make you unhappy. In the worst case all your money is removed, you can't make rent, and get kicked out. Now you're homeless, and either sleeping on people's couches or the street, and I bet you wouldn't be smiling in that situation.

Mimu 11y ago

As my dad says (I don't know if it's from him or somebody else but who cares): It's better to have rich issues than poors issues.

13thLetter 11y ago
Or put it another way, money doesn't buy happiness but it lets you be miserable in comfort.
antod 11y ago
I remember a Burt Reynolds interview (with Ruby Wax I think) when he said something like "I've been poor and miserable, and I've been rich and miserable - I'll take being rich and miserable any time". Nothing exactly earth shattering there, it just stuck in my mind for some reason.

beachstartup 11y ago

the same exact lessons can be applied to any long-term goal such as fitness / weight loss. some people "get it", others just don't.

ommunist 11y ago

Not everyone can run the business. I tried, and I can say I do not have enough guts to do do that hard things you should do sometimes. Like breaking promises, firing nice, but toxic to your business people, and many more unpleasant stunts.

kazinator 11y ago

"Money won't make you happy" is someone's naive, illogical reversal of the underlying, relevant truth: Lack of money will make you fucking miserable. Sure, just because luck of money will make you fucking miserable doesn't mean that the abundance of money will solve all your problems and make you happy. However, that is largely irrelevant because most people don't even have that "problem". Someone could hear that silly adage thousands of times throughout his life, and never find out first-hand whether it is true. Proverbs and adages should have broad applicability. The saying "money won't buy you happiness" (and its various other versions) has a purpose: it expresses a kind of exasperated defeatism over not having money and trying to be content anyway. It's a version of the human behavior which is exposed in that true piece of wisdom known as the Sour Grapes Fable. The fox cannot reach the grapes, so they are declared sour (i..e If I did reach those grapes, it wouldn't make me happy, because they are sour! We just have to identify the struggle for grapes with money. Most of the time this "cannot buy happiness" adage is not only heard by those who will never experience first-hand whether it is true, but also uttered by those in the same boat. There is a universal truth in it and it is that there exists a human predicament of not being satisified with what one has. It's not always possessions. Someone who has lots of possessions might be dissatisfied with something else in their life, and not necessarily the quantity of stuff. Perhaps he or she seeks to be more learned or skilled in something, or to have a different personality. Or to make some mark in the world other than being remembered as someone who had lots of stuff. I can tell you that if you have more money you will be happier in a sense, but you will still strive to achieve some other satisfactions.

the_af 11y ago

The full quote is "money won't make you happy (within reason)". I agree with this. Once you cover basic needs and some luxuries (say, a car, a nice house, the possibility to travel and pay for the education of your kids; add or subtract whatever floats your particular boat), additional money won't buy you more happiness. The kind of money that affords you these luxuries also gives you peace of mind. You can always scale back in difficult times, and it won't hurt you much. Having huge amounts of money won't make you happier -- you'd be well past the "peace of mind" stage at that point -- unless your most desired goal in life is to be a billionaire philantropist like Bill Gates. Or a power player in the world's economy. Or swimming in a pool of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck, I guess.

unabst 11y ago

What you're saying is "Money won't make you happy, but a lack of it will" which is a more accurate statement that doesn't necessarily contradict the shorter version. And this is what most talk about when using similar lines anyway. You admit development is where you find joy. You could be doing this broke if you didn't need money, but you do for rent etc. So the first step in happiness is to find how much money you need to be able to forget about it. If your goal is to be able to forget about something, it's certainly not something making you happy. It's what makes you miserable, but only when you lack it. This makes money like water or electricity. Lack of it would make us miserable. But beyond what we need, we cease to think about it. We practically have infinite water coming from our taps, and more than enough electricity we need. But it's the quenching of thirst, the long baths, the phone charging, the computer that's always on... these are the only things that could possibly make us happy. Resources don't necessarily make us happy or miserable. They're just enablers.

metaphorm 11y ago

> If I made $100 million and didn't ever have to worry about money again, I definitely would be happier. so actually you agree, money won't make you happy. its something you worry about now and the prospect of not worrying about it is what would make you happy. you probably don't need anywhere even close to $100 million to have enough money so you won't have to worry about it anymore. unless your lifestyle is lavish and decadent even $10 million is quite a lot. collecting just 2% annual interest on that (a very modest figure, available from pretty safe investments) would yield $200,000 annual income, which is more than most people get paid in salary from a 9-5 job. more to the point though is that everything you described is either 1) feeling relieved from not having to worry about the crushing effects of potentially falling into poverty or 2) feeling interested and engaged in the work itself. I think you actually made a pretty convincing argument _against_ your own thesis here. Money can't make you happy, but lack of money (i.e. poverty) can make you very very unhappy. Things that can actually make you happy are generally not for sale.

wdr1 11y ago

I've always viewed it as "The lack of money can make you unhappy, but money itself can't make you happy." Or put another way, money can be a demotivator, but not a motivator.

tomcam 11y ago

Yep. Grew up insecure & not rich. Now own my own house outright, work for myself, and can afford our exceptionally high medical insurance. Am much, much happier knowing the house is mine and that I can afford to repair it. Unlike my family as I grew up, we don't have to leave pots under holes in the sealing for years at a time because we can't afford roof repair. Am much happier knowing I can't be fired by a stupid boss. Money has made me much happier.

LordKano 11y ago

Money won’t make you happy This is true but misleading. Nothing external makes you happy. As cheesy as it may sound, happiness comes from within. That being said, having money can ease some of the stresses that weigh upon us and make us unhappy. Moreover, it's the kind of thing that is said by people who either have a lot of money already or have no chance of ever having a lot of money. For those of us in the middle, it's a patronizing and frustrating platitude.

glangdale 11y ago

$100M now? Some people are apparently harder to please than the sage and former governor of California: "Money doesn't make you happy. I now have $50 million but I was just as happy when I had $48 million." - Arnold Schwarzenegger This is, of course, a joke, but there is clearly a couple thresholds that are decisive: the first around the point of "no longer need to work immediately" and the second at "no longer need to work at all if one is willing to have a modest retirement". I suspect that if one is sort of person who thinks that $20M or $100M is a important further threshold for some calculation ("all of my descendants will be able to go to college, for the next 12 generations" or "I need to be able to buy anything that I can current conceive of wanting") there's probably no real end to it.