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Wrong way to look at it. Start a company and gain an understanding of what it will take for you to be in a position to have someone write some code that increa

Wrong way to look at it. Start a company and gain an understanding of what it will take for you to be in a position to have someone write some code that increases your sales. Infrastructure, capital, product, systems, risk, positioning, reputation, marketing, etc. perhaps then you will understand. I had a sales guy once tell me, as we got a new hardware product ready for manufacturing, that we'd figure out how to split the profits once we started shipping. He felt entitled, even though he'd only been with us for six months. He conveniently ignored the fact that this product had been in development for nearly ten years during which time I invested millions into R&D, marketing and building an infrastructure to support the product internationally. I let him go a few weeks after that comment. Wrong attitude and a complete lack of context. I actually prefer to hire people who have had some entrepreneurial experience. They make far better employees. They are independent, hard working, no-bullshit on-mission because they get it. Pay them well and unleash them for great results.

skolor 11y ago
The important part of the parent comment was "just like everyone else". For people who are employees, not stakeholders, recognition for success is important and the parent clearly felt they were not being recognized relative to their peers for what they were doing.
lifeisstillgood 11y ago
There are two areas I would look at here 1. How much independence did the OP show creating the Amazon hookup? Was it his/her baby? Did they push forgot to happen? Or were they just rotated onto the project and it came with the next item off the backlog? 2. Was the OP the only one to add value that year? Was the value they added more than others or about the same. Without these two it's hard to see if they should realise they are just an employee and have no leverage or if they did get shafted. I think we all need to have more P&L responsibility in our jobs - software is about creative capital and should be highly leveraged. Maybe we should all go back to the partnership model?
- rebootthesystem 11y ago
  Right. Timeline and comtex is missing as well. Also, in general terms, I think it is a bad idea to go to management or a company owner amd battle for a out-of-band raise. This is particularly true if one lacks context or visibility into the other layers that make-up the organization. It can make someone look clueless, selfish and not a team player. Nobody wants needy problem employees. To me context is very important. Most of the frustrating moments I've had with employees has been with sales people. They come at things from a very different perspective when compared to engimeers. Most business owners I know have the same "chills-down-my-back" reaction when asked about sales staff. Anyhow, I had a sales guy demand commission for closing sales at the office. The problem is I was spending tens of thousands of dollars per month in marketing and hundreds of thousands per trade show to make that phone ring. The job of a sales person is to go turn over stones and find business. What he was doing was taking orders. You don't pay someone a salary and commission (in a small company) to sit idle while fish jump into the boat. You pay them to fish. Anyhow, that guy was gone too. The best sales person I had was this 20-something girl who did not know the first thing about selling. I hired her to help at a tradeshow. I noticed she was great with customers and bery comfortable with technical material. I hired her as a sales person and trained her over several weeks. She easily made twice the salary of the best sales person I had up to that point. Changed her life and gained an absolute gem of a team member. Perhaps the real point here is that that's what you want to become: so good that you cannot be ignored. Business owners or management love to throw money lavishly at things and people who produce results. Not one time "got lucky" results but consistent dedication to the cause.
  - rebootthesystem 11y ago
    I really truly hate typing on an iPad...the typing errors are a PITA.
    - lifeisstillgood 11y ago
      I feel your pain "push for it to happen" -> "push forgot to happen". It's like being whipped with a Markov chain. My personal feeling is that anyone drawn to sales has a belief that they can magically make the world / other people / their mother do what they want simply by using the right words / form of persuasion. Its a belief in magic instead of science and it should not be a valuable skill in the 21C. Calling it a Reality Distortion Field is not improving the situation.

skolor 11y ago

The important part of the parent comment was "just like everyone else". For people who are employees, not stakeholders, recognition for success is important and the parent clearly felt they were not being recognized relative to their peers for what they were doing.

lifeisstillgood 11y ago

There are two areas I would look at here 1. How much independence did the OP show creating the Amazon hookup? Was it his/her baby? Did they push forgot to happen? Or were they just rotated onto the project and it came with the next item off the backlog? 2. Was the OP the only one to add value that year? Was the value they added more than others or about the same. Without these two it's hard to see if they should realise they are just an employee and have no leverage or if they did get shafted. I think we all need to have more P&L responsibility in our jobs - software is about creative capital and should be highly leveraged. Maybe we should all go back to the partnership model?

rebootthesystem 11y ago
Right. Timeline and comtex is missing as well. Also, in general terms, I think it is a bad idea to go to management or a company owner amd battle for a out-of-band raise. This is particularly true if one lacks context or visibility into the other layers that make-up the organization. It can make someone look clueless, selfish and not a team player. Nobody wants needy problem employees. To me context is very important. Most of the frustrating moments I've had with employees has been with sales people. They come at things from a very different perspective when compared to engimeers. Most business owners I know have the same "chills-down-my-back" reaction when asked about sales staff. Anyhow, I had a sales guy demand commission for closing sales at the office. The problem is I was spending tens of thousands of dollars per month in marketing and hundreds of thousands per trade show to make that phone ring. The job of a sales person is to go turn over stones and find business. What he was doing was taking orders. You don't pay someone a salary and commission (in a small company) to sit idle while fish jump into the boat. You pay them to fish. Anyhow, that guy was gone too. The best sales person I had was this 20-something girl who did not know the first thing about selling. I hired her to help at a tradeshow. I noticed she was great with customers and bery comfortable with technical material. I hired her as a sales person and trained her over several weeks. She easily made twice the salary of the best sales person I had up to that point. Changed her life and gained an absolute gem of a team member. Perhaps the real point here is that that's what you want to become: so good that you cannot be ignored. Business owners or management love to throw money lavishly at things and people who produce results. Not one time "got lucky" results but consistent dedication to the cause.
- rebootthesystem 11y ago
  I really truly hate typing on an iPad...the typing errors are a PITA.
  - lifeisstillgood 11y ago
    I feel your pain "push for it to happen" -> "push forgot to happen". It's like being whipped with a Markov chain. My personal feeling is that anyone drawn to sales has a belief that they can magically make the world / other people / their mother do what they want simply by using the right words / form of persuasion. Its a belief in magic instead of science and it should not be a valuable skill in the 21C. Calling it a Reality Distortion Field is not improving the situation.