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Firefox OS was pushing for "apps" to be web apps. That seemed a lot more open to me than pushing for apps to be proprietary This argument is made frequently, a

Firefox OS was pushing for "apps" to be web apps. That seemed a lot more open to me than pushing for apps to be proprietary This argument is made frequently, and I don't get it. With a typical web app, you have no idea what the backend is doing, and your data is stored on servers owned by third parties. At any time they can revoke your access, go out of business, share your data with others, or change the app in user-unfriendly ways. An open source Android app that runs and stores data locally (perhaps with an option for cloud storage) seems much more "open" than that.

m52go 11y ago
Yeah, but with a mobile app you have all those downsides...and you have to deal with the whims of a walled-garden gatekeeper like Google or Apple. That is, I can't just create an app and throw it up on a server like I can with a website. It needs to be "approved" first. That's a HUGE barrier to openness that the web never had, and hopefully never will have in the future. And, even though mobile apps run natively, I don't think one can be very confident that they're any more private than a typical website...analytics & the drive for data is there regardless of medium.
- soylentcola 11y ago
  Not to nitpick, but people create native apps all the time and throw them up on servers for download and installation. In fact I have a handful on my phone right now. It's one of the main reasons I've gravitated toward Android on mobile and away from the more mixed iOS/Android devices I used to buy. My first smartphones running PalmOS and Windows Mobile allowed me to download and install apps from trusted developers and I disliked the dodgy hurdles I had to jump in order to do the same on iOS. I agree completely about the privacy thing though. I guess it's a bit easier to see when a native app is sending data over the network with the right tools but in general, there's just as much room for abuse with either model.
petecox 11y ago
'typical web app' is NOT the default deployment model for Firefox OS. Apps on the Marketplace are deployed to a device and run locally, offline - complete with an intricate permissions model. The only 'web' aspect is being written in HTML/JS/CSS and the extent to which they integrate with the cloud. No less open than the github hosted, Android app scenario you mention. Maybe Firefox OS does need an f-droid equivalent for a free app catalogue though, if and when Mozilla pull the Marketplace servers down. So be aware of the distinction between mobile web 'apps' and mobile web sites.
- orangecat 11y ago
  Apps on the Marketplace are deployed to a device and run locally, offline - complete with an intricate permissions model. So like Android, except using HTML/JS/CSS which I'd consider either an irrelevant implementation detail or a negative. No less open than the github hosted, Android app scenario you mention. Sure, no less and no more. The real issues are whether the user is allowed to run the app without explicit permission from the OS vendor, and whether they're required to hand control of their data to a third party. Once we have the answers to those questions, whether the app is written in JS or Java or Swift or C++ doesn't really matter in terms of openness.

m52go 11y ago

Yeah, but with a mobile app you have all those downsides...and you have to deal with the whims of a walled-garden gatekeeper like Google or Apple. That is, I can't just create an app and throw it up on a server like I can with a website. It needs to be "approved" first. That's a HUGE barrier to openness that the web never had, and hopefully never will have in the future. And, even though mobile apps run natively, I don't think one can be very confident that they're any more private than a typical website...analytics & the drive for data is there regardless of medium.

soylentcola 11y ago
Not to nitpick, but people create native apps all the time and throw them up on servers for download and installation. In fact I have a handful on my phone right now. It's one of the main reasons I've gravitated toward Android on mobile and away from the more mixed iOS/Android devices I used to buy. My first smartphones running PalmOS and Windows Mobile allowed me to download and install apps from trusted developers and I disliked the dodgy hurdles I had to jump in order to do the same on iOS. I agree completely about the privacy thing though. I guess it's a bit easier to see when a native app is sending data over the network with the right tools but in general, there's just as much room for abuse with either model.

petecox 11y ago

'typical web app' is NOT the default deployment model for Firefox OS. Apps on the Marketplace are deployed to a device and run locally, offline - complete with an intricate permissions model. The only 'web' aspect is being written in HTML/JS/CSS and the extent to which they integrate with the cloud. No less open than the github hosted, Android app scenario you mention. Maybe Firefox OS does need an f-droid equivalent for a free app catalogue though, if and when Mozilla pull the Marketplace servers down. So be aware of the distinction between mobile web 'apps' and mobile web sites.

orangecat 11y ago
Apps on the Marketplace are deployed to a device and run locally, offline - complete with an intricate permissions model. So like Android, except using HTML/JS/CSS which I'd consider either an irrelevant implementation detail or a negative. No less open than the github hosted, Android app scenario you mention. Sure, no less and no more. The real issues are whether the user is allowed to run the app without explicit permission from the OS vendor, and whether they're required to hand control of their data to a third party. Once we have the answers to those questions, whether the app is written in JS or Java or Swift or C++ doesn't really matter in terms of openness.