9 ms·

Progress bar or not, npm has gotten extremely slow with v3, to the extent that someone is working on a performance-centered alternative called ied: http://guge

by untog 11y ago

Progress bar or not, npm has gotten extremely slow with v3, to the extent that someone is working on a performance-centered alternative called ied: http://gugel.io/ied/ http://gugel.io/ied/ installs are literally the #1 thing npm needs to do well, and I really hope we see some improvement soon.

smaili 11y ago
Awesome tool, but wish the url was a bit easier to spell/remember!
- miketaylr 11y ago
  just gugel it
  - striking 11y ago
    Heh, just "ied" will give you this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device "ied package manager" works, though.
    - nashashmi 11y ago
      Normally, I am not a fan of replacing words in the search engine with computer science stuff (think AJAX), but I can accept computer words replacing words that symbolize violence.
      - uxp 11y ago
        Your results, even when logged out, are heavily biased towards your previous query genres. For instance, I'm not logged in, but am at home with an IP address that hasn't changed in over a year despite being leased. When I search Google for the term "Ruby", the entire first page is for the Ruby programing language. My father works with jewelry. Last week while visiting him, I did in fact search for the term "Ruby" on his computer in his normal browser, and even though he was also logged out, I wasn't able to find one result dealing with the programming language on the first two pages.
        striking 11y ago
        Google understands that Ruby can mean different things to different people, although I don't think it's gotten there with "ied" yet (and rightfully so, it's probably not searched for very often, except in the violent sense)
    - x1024 11y ago
      That sounds like just begging to be put on a list, though :)
- Xophmeister 11y ago
  I'm not sure "IED" is the best acronym to go for, either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device
  - bb88 11y ago
    Didn't stop NUKE, PHP Nuke, DotNetNuke, etc.
    - wrigby 11y ago
      That brings me way back. Any love for PostNuke out there anymore?
      - stickfigure 11y ago
        Since we're going back in time, let's not forget WWIV and WWIVnet.
    - amptorn 11y ago
      "Free software projects with terrible names" is a long, long rabbit hole.
  - clessg 11y ago
    It gets brought up on a regular basis. Thought it was going to be renamed to `nom` but apparently not. https://github.com/alexanderGugel/ied/pull/45#issuecomment-174647786 https://github.com/alexanderGugel/ied/pull/45#issuecomment-1... > Thanks, but I'm not going to rename this project anytime soon.
    - brazzledazzle 11y ago
      That's unfortunate. Maybe sentiment on HN will finally get him to come to his senses.
  - microcolonel 11y ago
    But it's the bomb.
yunong 11y ago
Even more important, npm doesn't reliably reproduce builds. Different runs of the same shrinkwrapped build could either fail or succeed -- which is odd given that builds should be deterministic. Additionally, shrinkwrap is also broken in the same way. This is the first time I've heard of ied, a little competition could go a long way!
- krisdol 11y ago
  Could you expand on that? What causes it to be nondeterministic? I haven't had that experience but it's the second time I've read someone reference this behavior
  - yunong 11y ago
    I have a project that's shrinkwrapped. I check out a new copy of the project and run `npm install`. My co-worker does the exact same thing, his fails, yet mine successfully builds. An install of a shrink-wrapped should be deterinistic, i.e. either succeed or fail, but not both.
    - Wintamute 11y ago
      From that doc page it sounds like that should be deterministic? Even without shrinkwrapping, a fresh install from package.json with empty node_modules should be deterministic. > The npm install command, when used exclusively to install packages from a package.json, will always produce the same tree. This is because install order from a package.json is always alphabetical. Same install order means that you will get the same tree. > You can reliably get the same dependency tree by removing your node_modules directory and running npm install whenever you make a change to your package.json. Maybe you're experiencing a bug, rather than some in-grained non-determinism in npm?
      - madeofpalk 11y ago
        My understanding is that even when you fix your dependencies to exact versions, your dependencies probably haven't so without shrink-wrap you'll never know _exactly_ what gets installed.
dclowd9901 11y ago
Speed and support for multiple module development that have cross dependencies. Npm link sucks and updating and publishing downstream dependencies is a chore I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
sandGorgon 11y ago
There is also JSPM and Systemjs - works great in production. https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/675 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/675

by untog 11y ago

smaili 11y ago

Awesome tool, but wish the url was a bit easier to spell/remember!

miketaylr 11y ago
just gugel it
- striking 11y ago
  Heh, just "ied" will give you this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device "ied package manager" works, though.
  - nashashmi 11y ago
    Normally, I am not a fan of replacing words in the search engine with computer science stuff (think AJAX), but I can accept computer words replacing words that symbolize violence.
    - uxp 11y ago
      Your results, even when logged out, are heavily biased towards your previous query genres. For instance, I'm not logged in, but am at home with an IP address that hasn't changed in over a year despite being leased. When I search Google for the term "Ruby", the entire first page is for the Ruby programing language. My father works with jewelry. Last week while visiting him, I did in fact search for the term "Ruby" on his computer in his normal browser, and even though he was also logged out, I wasn't able to find one result dealing with the programming language on the first two pages.
      - striking 11y ago
        Google understands that Ruby can mean different things to different people, although I don't think it's gotten there with "ied" yet (and rightfully so, it's probably not searched for very often, except in the violent sense)
  - x1024 11y ago
    That sounds like just begging to be put on a list, though :)
Xophmeister 11y ago
I'm not sure "IED" is the best acronym to go for, either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device
- bb88 11y ago
  Didn't stop NUKE, PHP Nuke, DotNetNuke, etc.
  - wrigby 11y ago
    That brings me way back. Any love for PostNuke out there anymore?
    - stickfigure 11y ago
      Since we're going back in time, let's not forget WWIV and WWIVnet.
  - amptorn 11y ago
    "Free software projects with terrible names" is a long, long rabbit hole.
- clessg 11y ago
  It gets brought up on a regular basis. Thought it was going to be renamed to `nom` but apparently not. https://github.com/alexanderGugel/ied/pull/45#issuecomment-174647786 https://github.com/alexanderGugel/ied/pull/45#issuecomment-1... > Thanks, but I'm not going to rename this project anytime soon.
  - brazzledazzle 11y ago
    That's unfortunate. Maybe sentiment on HN will finally get him to come to his senses.
- microcolonel 11y ago
  But it's the bomb.

yunong 11y ago

Even more important, npm doesn't reliably reproduce builds. Different runs of the same shrinkwrapped build could either fail or succeed -- which is odd given that builds should be deterministic. Additionally, shrinkwrap is also broken in the same way. This is the first time I've heard of ied, a little competition could go a long way!

krisdol 11y ago
Could you expand on that? What causes it to be nondeterministic? I haven't had that experience but it's the second time I've read someone reference this behavior
- yunong 11y ago
  I have a project that's shrinkwrapped. I check out a new copy of the project and run `npm install`. My co-worker does the exact same thing, his fails, yet mine successfully builds. An install of a shrink-wrapped should be deterinistic, i.e. either succeed or fail, but not both.
  - Wintamute 11y ago
    From that doc page it sounds like that should be deterministic? Even without shrinkwrapping, a fresh install from package.json with empty node_modules should be deterministic. > The npm install command, when used exclusively to install packages from a package.json, will always produce the same tree. This is because install order from a package.json is always alphabetical. Same install order means that you will get the same tree. > You can reliably get the same dependency tree by removing your node_modules directory and running npm install whenever you make a change to your package.json. Maybe you're experiencing a bug, rather than some in-grained non-determinism in npm?
    - madeofpalk 11y ago
      My understanding is that even when you fix your dependencies to exact versions, your dependencies probably haven't so without shrink-wrap you'll never know _exactly_ what gets installed.

dclowd9901 11y ago

Speed and support for multiple module development that have cross dependencies. Npm link sucks and updating and publishing downstream dependencies is a chore I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

sandGorgon 11y ago

There is also JSPM and Systemjs - works great in production. https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/675 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/675