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> We can all agree that IF the market cap gets this large, it will mean Bitcoin will have had a huge positive impact on society. What, why?! Even if that were

> We can all agree that IF the market cap gets this large, it will mean Bitcoin will have had a huge positive impact on society. What, why?! Even if that were the case, it doesn't follow that the good it does outweighs using 1% of all energy.

mrb 11y ago
I will explain. Firstly, I think you are underestimating the societal impact that would have led a cryptocurrency to be worth $1 trillion. It would mean it has succeeded on a massive scale: foreign trade made more fluid thanks to Bitcoin's disregard of political borders, hundreds of millions of people using it to escape inflation/financial restrictions/etc (vs. today's few million users), millions of merchants accepting it (vs. today's 130 000 merchants). All Bitcoin would have to accomplish to justify using 0.X% of the world's energy is to increase the world GDP by 0.X%. Secondly, 0.74% is an upper bound. It assumes power costs of $0.01 per kWh (read section 2 at http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=82 http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=82) when actually the average power cost worldwide is 10x higher ($0.10/kWh). Maybe it will be 0.3% of the total energy. Maybe 0.1%. How low is low enough that you would consider it worthwhile?
- PhilWright 11y ago
  There is no level of hash calculations that is acceptable. It is crazy to have a currency that requires this dumb make-work of hashing which results in CO2 emissions. We live in a world of dangerous climate change and Bitcoin users want us to expel CO2 into the atmosphere with every currency transaction. That is dumb and not sustainable.
  - mrb 11y ago
    I actually address this point in my post: "Many/most miners use hydroelectric power because competition compels them to use cheap renewable energy instead of other polluting power sources such as coal power plants" examples: BitFury: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151211005837/en/BitFury-Launch-Energy-Efficient-Immersion-Cooling-Data https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151211005837/en/Bit... KnC: http://thenodepole.com/2015/06/04/kncminer-to-build-new-20mw-greenfield-datacenter-in-the-node-pole/ http://thenodepole.com/2015/06/04/kncminer-to-build-new-20mw... Therefore your worry about CO₂ emissions is misplaced.
  - aback 11y ago
    > There is no level of hash calculations that is acceptable. Well that's just unreasonable. Do you have any earthly idea how much CO2 the current banking system expends?

mrb 11y ago

I will explain. Firstly, I think you are underestimating the societal impact that would have led a cryptocurrency to be worth $1 trillion. It would mean it has succeeded on a massive scale: foreign trade made more fluid thanks to Bitcoin's disregard of political borders, hundreds of millions of people using it to escape inflation/financial restrictions/etc (vs. today's few million users), millions of merchants accepting it (vs. today's 130 000 merchants). All Bitcoin would have to accomplish to justify using 0.X% of the world's energy is to increase the world GDP by 0.X%. Secondly, 0.74% is an upper bound. It assumes power costs of $0.01 per kWh (read section 2 at http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=82 http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=82) when actually the average power cost worldwide is 10x higher ($0.10/kWh). Maybe it will be 0.3% of the total energy. Maybe 0.1%. How low is low enough that you would consider it worthwhile?

PhilWright 11y ago
There is no level of hash calculations that is acceptable. It is crazy to have a currency that requires this dumb make-work of hashing which results in CO2 emissions. We live in a world of dangerous climate change and Bitcoin users want us to expel CO2 into the atmosphere with every currency transaction. That is dumb and not sustainable.
- mrb 11y ago
  I actually address this point in my post: "Many/most miners use hydroelectric power because competition compels them to use cheap renewable energy instead of other polluting power sources such as coal power plants" examples: BitFury: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151211005837/en/BitFury-Launch-Energy-Efficient-Immersion-Cooling-Data https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151211005837/en/Bit... KnC: http://thenodepole.com/2015/06/04/kncminer-to-build-new-20mw-greenfield-datacenter-in-the-node-pole/ http://thenodepole.com/2015/06/04/kncminer-to-build-new-20mw... Therefore your worry about CO₂ emissions is misplaced.
- aback 11y ago
  > There is no level of hash calculations that is acceptable. Well that's just unreasonable. Do you have any earthly idea how much CO2 the current banking system expends?