5 ms·

You could just pay your fines before you drive. I know that's going to be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not saying their debt collection strategy is kosher, bu

by Laaw 11y ago

You could just pay your fines before you drive. I know that's going to be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not saying their debt collection strategy is kosher, but it's not like they're fabricating the fines. Also, you could "call their bluff" so to speak and go to jail. It's probably just overnight, and it sounds like you're not actually charged with anything. You've got lots of options, lots of levers to pull to fix this.

Alupis 11y ago
The "go to jail" option is what the individual would have faced if pulled over for any other normal traffic stop (ie. run red light, no turn signal, etc...). So I don't see anything wrong with this really... the individuals already broke the law by not paying their court fines, and this is just providing a mechanism to enforce that law.
- joesmo 11y ago
  What state exactly sends you to jail for failure to use a turn signal or running a red light? I want to make sure to avoid that state at all costs.
  - dzdt 11y ago
    Missouri, for one, but I think it is common: "...more than half the courts in St. Louis County engage in the "illegal and harmful practices" of charging high court fines and fees on nonviolent offenses like traffic violations — and then arresting people when they don't pay." http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fines-and-fees-fuel-anger http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fi...
  - ggreer 11y ago
    That's not what Alupis is saying. You don't go to jail for running a red light or failing to signal. You get pulled over for those things. You go to jail because the cop ran your info and found that you were guilty of other crimes.
    - vkou 11y ago
      You also go to jail for being too poor to pay the fine for failing to signal. Now, you might say that not doing so would just incentivise poor people to not ever obey traffic law... In which case I would have to ask - what incentive does a billionaire have to ever obey traffic law?
      - ggreer 11y ago
        > ...what incentive does a billionaire have to ever obey traffic law? I'm no billionaire, but I used to think along those lines: Just budget a couple grand a year for tickets and insurance hikes, then go wild. Unfortunately for me, there's more to traffic violations than fines. There's traffic school. There's getting your ride towed, leaving you standing on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere (this was pre-uber). There's waiting until Monday to get it back, because the impound lot is closed on Sundays. It's quite a hassle, so I don't speed or drive aggressively anymore. > You also go to jail for being too poor to pay the fine for failing to signal. Well... you don't immediately go to jail for failure to pay fines. For traffic stuff, it takes weeks before you're actually hit with a fine. Most courts also have payment plans or discounts for financial hardship. It's not as cruel of a system as you might think. It's only slightly related, but paying the late fine on the spot was what I found so odd about the Texas bill. Cops never accept money. Asking a cop, "Can I pay the ticket here, right now?" is usually a veiled attempt at bribery. If the cop says yes, you're negotiating price. Then you use more veiled language like, "Is there is discount for paying it now?" Etc.
        vkou 11y ago
        Yep. It's a huge pain in the ass - one that poor people would want to avoid even more then you do. > It's not as cruel of a system as you might think. Maybe not in nice middle-class suburban neighbourhoods... But it is in places like Ferguson - which has outstanding arrest warrants for 75% of its population... Almost entirely for not paying their tickets. [1] [2] No, you don't immediately go to jail - but if you can't scrape up the money in two weeks, you can get an arrest warrant issued. And once they let you out, you'll still have the same unpaid fine, only now you're also out of a job. [1] http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-tickets-fines/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-ti... [2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/the-shocking-finding-from-the-doj-ferguson_b_6858388.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/the-shocking-f...
- goaewojagew 11y ago
  No, this is not "just" providing a mechanism to enforce that law. They're creating a permanent record of every individual's travels, regardless of whether they're wanted for any crimes, and they are storing it indefinitely. If you don't understand why that's a bad thing, and why intelligent people are freaked out about it, I strongly suggest you study history.
post_break 11y ago
You've never been dirt poor I take it. Where the fines for something like out of date registration is the difference between rent. And you have to drive through a township where the cops are out like sharks. It piles up. http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/06/news/ferguson-arrest-warrants/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/06/news/ferguson-arrest-warrant...
- Laaw 11y ago
  I feel bad for those folks, but maybe they should have worked harder to not break the law if the payments were truly going to cost them so dearly. Also, judges will allow you to provide evidence of your financial situation to the court, and will adjust the fines or payment schedules accordingly.
sehr 11y ago
You could just pay your fines before you drive. Very easy for you to say maybe, not everyone has the money to pay even <$100 fines before driving to work the next day. I guess you could just go to jail, wonder who's going to watch the kids tonight though. Also hoping the boss will understand being late the next day, processing takes a fair amount of time. I'm sure they'll understand
- Laaw 11y ago
  Yes, I'm sure we can sit around conjuring up absolute worst case scenarios where a mother of 3 was fined for unloading her kid at school, and she can't miss work again because one of her kids has a medical condition so she sometimes has to take him to the hospital, which is 200 miles away, uphill in the snow, both ways, etc.
  - sehr 11y ago
    I honestly don't think my comment was anywhere near unrealistic enough to warrant this type of response.
    - Laaw 11y ago
      I honestly think it was, given the pile-on and sarcastic ending.
  - rconti 11y ago
    I'm not sure "having family obligations after working hours" or "having a job where you're expected to arrive more or less on time" are quite the absurd worst-case scenarios you envision them to be.
    - Laaw 11y ago
      Sorry, if that's all the above post was trying to say, I apologize. That's just not all I read, though.

by Laaw 11y ago

Alupis 11y ago

The "go to jail" option is what the individual would have faced if pulled over for any other normal traffic stop (ie. run red light, no turn signal, etc...). So I don't see anything wrong with this really... the individuals already broke the law by not paying their court fines, and this is just providing a mechanism to enforce that law.

joesmo 11y ago
What state exactly sends you to jail for failure to use a turn signal or running a red light? I want to make sure to avoid that state at all costs.
- dzdt 11y ago
  Missouri, for one, but I think it is common: "...more than half the courts in St. Louis County engage in the "illegal and harmful practices" of charging high court fines and fees on nonviolent offenses like traffic violations — and then arresting people when they don't pay." http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fines-and-fees-fuel-anger http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fi...
- ggreer 11y ago
  That's not what Alupis is saying. You don't go to jail for running a red light or failing to signal. You get pulled over for those things. You go to jail because the cop ran your info and found that you were guilty of other crimes.
  - vkou 11y ago
    You also go to jail for being too poor to pay the fine for failing to signal. Now, you might say that not doing so would just incentivise poor people to not ever obey traffic law... In which case I would have to ask - what incentive does a billionaire have to ever obey traffic law?
    - ggreer 11y ago
      > ...what incentive does a billionaire have to ever obey traffic law? I'm no billionaire, but I used to think along those lines: Just budget a couple grand a year for tickets and insurance hikes, then go wild. Unfortunately for me, there's more to traffic violations than fines. There's traffic school. There's getting your ride towed, leaving you standing on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere (this was pre-uber). There's waiting until Monday to get it back, because the impound lot is closed on Sundays. It's quite a hassle, so I don't speed or drive aggressively anymore. > You also go to jail for being too poor to pay the fine for failing to signal. Well... you don't immediately go to jail for failure to pay fines. For traffic stuff, it takes weeks before you're actually hit with a fine. Most courts also have payment plans or discounts for financial hardship. It's not as cruel of a system as you might think. It's only slightly related, but paying the late fine on the spot was what I found so odd about the Texas bill. Cops never accept money. Asking a cop, "Can I pay the ticket here, right now?" is usually a veiled attempt at bribery. If the cop says yes, you're negotiating price. Then you use more veiled language like, "Is there is discount for paying it now?" Etc.
      - vkou 11y ago
        Yep. It's a huge pain in the ass - one that poor people would want to avoid even more then you do. > It's not as cruel of a system as you might think. Maybe not in nice middle-class suburban neighbourhoods... But it is in places like Ferguson - which has outstanding arrest warrants for 75% of its population... Almost entirely for not paying their tickets. [1] [2] No, you don't immediately go to jail - but if you can't scrape up the money in two weeks, you can get an arrest warrant issued. And once they let you out, you'll still have the same unpaid fine, only now you're also out of a job. [1] http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-tickets-fines/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-ti... [2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/the-shocking-finding-from-the-doj-ferguson_b_6858388.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/the-shocking-f...
goaewojagew 11y ago
No, this is not "just" providing a mechanism to enforce that law. They're creating a permanent record of every individual's travels, regardless of whether they're wanted for any crimes, and they are storing it indefinitely. If you don't understand why that's a bad thing, and why intelligent people are freaked out about it, I strongly suggest you study history.

post_break 11y ago

You've never been dirt poor I take it. Where the fines for something like out of date registration is the difference between rent. And you have to drive through a township where the cops are out like sharks. It piles up. http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/06/news/ferguson-arrest-warrants/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/06/news/ferguson-arrest-warrant...

Laaw 11y ago
I feel bad for those folks, but maybe they should have worked harder to not break the law if the payments were truly going to cost them so dearly. Also, judges will allow you to provide evidence of your financial situation to the court, and will adjust the fines or payment schedules accordingly.

sehr 11y ago

You could just pay your fines before you drive. Very easy for you to say maybe, not everyone has the money to pay even <$100 fines before driving to work the next day. I guess you could just go to jail, wonder who's going to watch the kids tonight though. Also hoping the boss will understand being late the next day, processing takes a fair amount of time. I'm sure they'll understand

Laaw 11y ago
Yes, I'm sure we can sit around conjuring up absolute worst case scenarios where a mother of 3 was fined for unloading her kid at school, and she can't miss work again because one of her kids has a medical condition so she sometimes has to take him to the hospital, which is 200 miles away, uphill in the snow, both ways, etc.
- sehr 11y ago
  I honestly don't think my comment was anywhere near unrealistic enough to warrant this type of response.
  - Laaw 11y ago
    I honestly think it was, given the pile-on and sarcastic ending.
- rconti 11y ago
  I'm not sure "having family obligations after working hours" or "having a job where you're expected to arrive more or less on time" are quite the absurd worst-case scenarios you envision them to be.
  - Laaw 11y ago
    Sorry, if that's all the above post was trying to say, I apologize. That's just not all I read, though.