7 ms·

Between this and cops simply stealing money, also known euphemistically as asset forfeiture, it's a huge risk to drive anywhere these days. How can ordinary, la

by joesmo 11y ago

Between this and cops simply stealing money, also known euphemistically as asset forfeiture, it's a huge risk to drive anywhere these days. How can ordinary, law-abiding citizens have respect for the law when the law is written to specifically hurt them? I suppose on our way to fascism, privacy is only a small bump in the road, barely even worth this comment.

Alupis 11y ago
> How can ordinary, law-abiding citizens have respect for the law when the law is written to specifically hurt them You do realize for the scenario to play out as-in the article, one must have already broken the law and is therefore not a "law-abiding citizen".
- joesmo 11y ago
  So they will only collect my information if I have broken the law? You're wrong.
  - Alupis 11y ago
    You also need to realize police already drive around and randomly type into their computer license plate numbers to see what comes up. This system just makes it faster and red flags those who are really breaking the law.
    - FireBeyond 11y ago
      Yeah. They do. That's not GPS stamped. It's not loaded into a commercial database for a company to sell to other companies for gain. And to add insult to injury, who pays for it?
  - rhino369 11y ago
    License plate readers only collect a government issued ID that exists to publicly ID you. The info on the servers the cop looks is about you but it's not your information.
- Shivetya 11y ago
  Assuming the driver who is at the wheel at the time is the actual guilty party and not a family member or friend.
- marshray 11y ago
  I live in an area with all kinds of automated toll cameras. I get unexpected bills in the mail all the time for simply going over a bridge or unknowingly driving in the 'premium' fee lane. Lose a little mail, wait a little time, and bam you're a violator. It's so common as to be a normal thing that people pick up traffic fines.
  - Alupis 11y ago
    > It's so common as to be a normal thing that people pick up traffic fines. And so we should just not try to collect on legally owed fines imposed for breaking the law? > Lose a little mail, wait a little time, and bam you're a violator If you had a due date to pay a fine... and you didn't pay that fine by the due date... then yes, you're a violator. Not sure how that's not clear.
    - phil21 11y ago
      You're missing the point. Of course he has to pay. The punishment of spending a night (or weekend, if you get unlucky) in jail so you can see a judge in the morning is disproportionate to either losing or neglecting to pay a small fine. It should not be the choice between go to jail for the night, or pay a third party private company an extra 25%. Basically why does this exist? Those that can afford to generally pay these fines eventually when they go to renew tabs/get pulled over/whatever. Those that can't afford them won't pay them either way, and this just makes their already shitty lives shittier by likely putting them out of work. There were times I got to work and back barely making ends meet when I had outstanding warrants for unpaid tickets. I did what I had to do to feed my family, got back on my feet, and paid them off. Automated scanners at every turn would have put me out of work, and minimum out of the bottom rungs of the career I currently enjoy. At some point you need to stop kicking people while their down, and use a little common sense. Extorting them another 25% or ruining their lives is ridiculous. I agree you need a way to go after scofflaws, but the they are a very small minority in a very wide sea of folks kind of caught up in a system they are unlikely to get out of. If you think Payday loan stores are bad, just get in debt to the government.
      - 11y ago
Laaw 11y ago
You could just pay your fines before you drive. I know that's going to be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not saying their debt collection strategy is kosher, but it's not like they're fabricating the fines. Also, you could "call their bluff" so to speak and go to jail. It's probably just overnight, and it sounds like you're not actually charged with anything. You've got lots of options, lots of levers to pull to fix this.
- Alupis 11y ago
  The "go to jail" option is what the individual would have faced if pulled over for any other normal traffic stop (ie. run red light, no turn signal, etc...). So I don't see anything wrong with this really... the individuals already broke the law by not paying their court fines, and this is just providing a mechanism to enforce that law.
  - joesmo 11y ago
    What state exactly sends you to jail for failure to use a turn signal or running a red light? I want to make sure to avoid that state at all costs.
    - dzdt 11y ago
      Missouri, for one, but I think it is common: "...more than half the courts in St. Louis County engage in the "illegal and harmful practices" of charging high court fines and fees on nonviolent offenses like traffic violations — and then arresting people when they don't pay." http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fines-and-fees-fuel-anger http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fi...
    - ggreer 11y ago
      That's not what Alupis is saying. You don't go to jail for running a red light or failing to signal. You get pulled over for those things. You go to jail because the cop ran your info and found that you were guilty of other crimes.

by joesmo 11y ago

Alupis 11y ago

> How can ordinary, law-abiding citizens have respect for the law when the law is written to specifically hurt them You do realize for the scenario to play out as-in the article, one must have already broken the law and is therefore not a "law-abiding citizen".

joesmo 11y ago
So they will only collect my information if I have broken the law? You're wrong.
- Alupis 11y ago
  You also need to realize police already drive around and randomly type into their computer license plate numbers to see what comes up. This system just makes it faster and red flags those who are really breaking the law.
  - FireBeyond 11y ago
    Yeah. They do. That's not GPS stamped. It's not loaded into a commercial database for a company to sell to other companies for gain. And to add insult to injury, who pays for it?
- rhino369 11y ago
  License plate readers only collect a government issued ID that exists to publicly ID you. The info on the servers the cop looks is about you but it's not your information.
Shivetya 11y ago
Assuming the driver who is at the wheel at the time is the actual guilty party and not a family member or friend.
marshray 11y ago
I live in an area with all kinds of automated toll cameras. I get unexpected bills in the mail all the time for simply going over a bridge or unknowingly driving in the 'premium' fee lane. Lose a little mail, wait a little time, and bam you're a violator. It's so common as to be a normal thing that people pick up traffic fines.
- Alupis 11y ago
  > It's so common as to be a normal thing that people pick up traffic fines. And so we should just not try to collect on legally owed fines imposed for breaking the law? > Lose a little mail, wait a little time, and bam you're a violator If you had a due date to pay a fine... and you didn't pay that fine by the due date... then yes, you're a violator. Not sure how that's not clear.
  - phil21 11y ago
    You're missing the point. Of course he has to pay. The punishment of spending a night (or weekend, if you get unlucky) in jail so you can see a judge in the morning is disproportionate to either losing or neglecting to pay a small fine. It should not be the choice between go to jail for the night, or pay a third party private company an extra 25%. Basically why does this exist? Those that can afford to generally pay these fines eventually when they go to renew tabs/get pulled over/whatever. Those that can't afford them won't pay them either way, and this just makes their already shitty lives shittier by likely putting them out of work. There were times I got to work and back barely making ends meet when I had outstanding warrants for unpaid tickets. I did what I had to do to feed my family, got back on my feet, and paid them off. Automated scanners at every turn would have put me out of work, and minimum out of the bottom rungs of the career I currently enjoy. At some point you need to stop kicking people while their down, and use a little common sense. Extorting them another 25% or ruining their lives is ridiculous. I agree you need a way to go after scofflaws, but the they are a very small minority in a very wide sea of folks kind of caught up in a system they are unlikely to get out of. If you think Payday loan stores are bad, just get in debt to the government.
    - 11y ago

Laaw 11y ago

You could just pay your fines before you drive. I know that's going to be an unpopular opinion, and I'm not saying their debt collection strategy is kosher, but it's not like they're fabricating the fines. Also, you could "call their bluff" so to speak and go to jail. It's probably just overnight, and it sounds like you're not actually charged with anything. You've got lots of options, lots of levers to pull to fix this.

Alupis 11y ago
The "go to jail" option is what the individual would have faced if pulled over for any other normal traffic stop (ie. run red light, no turn signal, etc...). So I don't see anything wrong with this really... the individuals already broke the law by not paying their court fines, and this is just providing a mechanism to enforce that law.
- joesmo 11y ago
  What state exactly sends you to jail for failure to use a turn signal or running a red light? I want to make sure to avoid that state at all costs.
  - dzdt 11y ago
    Missouri, for one, but I think it is common: "...more than half the courts in St. Louis County engage in the "illegal and harmful practices" of charging high court fines and fees on nonviolent offenses like traffic violations — and then arresting people when they don't pay." http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fines-and-fees-fuel-anger http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fi...
  - ggreer 11y ago
    That's not what Alupis is saying. You don't go to jail for running a red light or failing to signal. You get pulled over for those things. You go to jail because the cop ran your info and found that you were guilty of other crimes.