3 ms·

The question is moot; sawdust is basically pure undigestible fiber (poor mans Metamucil), so since the caloric content of it is virtually nil, it would be impos

The question is moot; sawdust is basically pure undigestible fiber (poor mans Metamucil), so since the caloric content of it is virtually nil, it would be impossible to consume 10,000 calories of it.

tptacek 11y ago
The caloric content of olive oil is not virtually nil, and you can in fact consume a whole bottle of olive oil. Does "thermodynamics" dictate that you'll gain several pounds of fat after you do that? Your answer, of course, is "no". So just to move the conversation forwards: do you think if 3 random people consumed a bottle of olive oil, they would necessarily gain an equivalent amount of weight? Why or why not?
- npsimons 11y ago
  This question is facetious, almost as facetious as the "10,000 calories of sawdust". Almost. The human body can only process so much fat at once based on bile production. On top of all that, I would say no, I wouldn't gain several pounds of fat after consuming a whole bottle of olive oil because it wouldn't be 3500 calories (12floz = 24 tablespoons * 119 calories = 2856 calories), even assuming I don't poop most of it out (as can be seen on Youtube videos). That doesn't change the fact that a tablespoon of olive oil contains 119 calories and up to a certain volume the human digestive tract will extract energy from it. Second, I don't think three random people would gain the equivalent amount of weight; that's one of my points I've made elsewhere. TDEE for different people is different, based on height, weight (heavier people have higher TDEEs, which is ironic because it makes it easier for them to lose weight), and activity level. If you're talking three people of the same height, weight, strictly controlled activity level and strictly controlled intake, then I would expect their weight gain to be as close to identical as to make no difference. There's always some variance (within 200-300 Kcal: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/ http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...) Since we're cherry picking completely unrealistic intakes, I'll pose back to you: if three random people consumed 3500 calories worth of refined sugar, and that exceeded their TDEE by 3500 calories, then yes, each and every one of them would gain 1lb of adipose tissue. Seeing that many in the US easily approach an intake of this much refined sugar in the form of soda, the results (of the population, 2/3 is overweight, and 1/3 is obese) should not be surprising.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    It's not my argument that the environment plays no role in obesity. It clearly does. I too think liquid calories are a major culprit. I just think the "thermodynamics" argument oversimplifies immensely. Even the variance in resting metabolic rate is unlikely to capture the whole difference between multiple subjects consuming 3500 calories of oil (or, for that matter, bacon or butter), because resting metabolic rate captures the variance you'd see between people consuming refined sugar, and there are more variables involved in metabolizing fat. Later, because this is bugging me a bit And that's all before we get into satiety, which is a hormonal response. I had some cheese and rillettes for lunch. I'm not going to be hungry for the rest of the day. If I'd had the equivalent calories in carbohydrates, I'd be hungry in an hour. Upthread, the term "willpower" is being bandied about as if people can simply will themselves to eat a fixed number of calories. That's true only if you eat carefully, and if you don't have any hormonal dysfunction; it's as true as saying I could will myself into coding for 48 hours straight, if I just focussed my "will" on it.

The question is moot; sawdust is basically pure undigestible fiber (poor mans Metamucil), so since the caloric content of it is virtually nil, it would be impossible to consume 10,000 calories of it.

tptacek 11y ago

The caloric content of olive oil is not virtually nil, and you can in fact consume a whole bottle of olive oil. Does "thermodynamics" dictate that you'll gain several pounds of fat after you do that? Your answer, of course, is "no". So just to move the conversation forwards: do you think if 3 random people consumed a bottle of olive oil, they would necessarily gain an equivalent amount of weight? Why or why not?

npsimons 11y ago
This question is facetious, almost as facetious as the "10,000 calories of sawdust". Almost. The human body can only process so much fat at once based on bile production. On top of all that, I would say no, I wouldn't gain several pounds of fat after consuming a whole bottle of olive oil because it wouldn't be 3500 calories (12floz = 24 tablespoons * 119 calories = 2856 calories), even assuming I don't poop most of it out (as can be seen on Youtube videos). That doesn't change the fact that a tablespoon of olive oil contains 119 calories and up to a certain volume the human digestive tract will extract energy from it. Second, I don't think three random people would gain the equivalent amount of weight; that's one of my points I've made elsewhere. TDEE for different people is different, based on height, weight (heavier people have higher TDEEs, which is ironic because it makes it easier for them to lose weight), and activity level. If you're talking three people of the same height, weight, strictly controlled activity level and strictly controlled intake, then I would expect their weight gain to be as close to identical as to make no difference. There's always some variance (within 200-300 Kcal: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/ http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...) Since we're cherry picking completely unrealistic intakes, I'll pose back to you: if three random people consumed 3500 calories worth of refined sugar, and that exceeded their TDEE by 3500 calories, then yes, each and every one of them would gain 1lb of adipose tissue. Seeing that many in the US easily approach an intake of this much refined sugar in the form of soda, the results (of the population, 2/3 is overweight, and 1/3 is obese) should not be surprising.
- tptacek 11y ago
  It's not my argument that the environment plays no role in obesity. It clearly does. I too think liquid calories are a major culprit. I just think the "thermodynamics" argument oversimplifies immensely. Even the variance in resting metabolic rate is unlikely to capture the whole difference between multiple subjects consuming 3500 calories of oil (or, for that matter, bacon or butter), because resting metabolic rate captures the variance you'd see between people consuming refined sugar, and there are more variables involved in metabolizing fat. Later, because this is bugging me a bit And that's all before we get into satiety, which is a hormonal response. I had some cheese and rillettes for lunch. I'm not going to be hungry for the rest of the day. If I'd had the equivalent calories in carbohydrates, I'd be hungry in an hour. Upthread, the term "willpower" is being bandied about as if people can simply will themselves to eat a fixed number of calories. That's true only if you eat carefully, and if you don't have any hormonal dysfunction; it's as true as saying I could will myself into coding for 48 hours straight, if I just focussed my "will" on it.