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The laws of thermodynamics still apply. If someone does not lose weight on 1300 calories a day then either their body is a marvel of science and should be studi

The laws of thermodynamics still apply. If someone does not lose weight on 1300 calories a day then either their body is a marvel of science and should be studied for its amazing efficiency... or they are completely sedentary.

tptacek 11y ago
"Thermodynamics"? There are 120 calories in a tablespoon of olive oil. If I pay you $50 to drink a whole bottle of olive oil, do you think you'll gain several pounds of fat?
- cgh 11y ago
  To elaborate upon this point, let's say I gave you 10,000 calories of sawdust to eat every day for a week. Would you gain weight or lose weight, ignoring the other health consequences?
  - nommm-nommm 11y ago
    Similar - I saw an episode of Superfat vs Superskinny where the superskinny guy ate almost nothing but chocolate. His calorie intake was probably 4000 calories a day or more yet he was unhealthy skinny. Do you think he was lying?
    - undersuit 11y ago
      I did not watch this show so I have are some questions. 1. Was the skinny individual monitored the entire time? He could have regurgitated his food. 2. Was the skinny person's poop analyzed for complete digestion of the 4000 calories?
      - nommm-nommm 11y ago
        No, its not some sort of science experiment, its mindless entertainment. 4000 calories was a wild gestimation of something I saw probably 5 years ago. The premise of the show is they bring in two people - one superfat and one superskinny. They weight them and each person tells what a typical day's food intake is for them. Then they switch diets for a couple weeks and are weighed again at the end. Yes, its possible he lied about eating all that chocolate. Yes, he could be throwing up every day. This isn't a controlled experiment, its a TV show. It seems odd someone would do that though.
    - npsimons 11y ago
      > Do you think he was lying? Yes. If there's anything reading diet studies has taught me, it's that people lie, to themselves even, and people are very bad at estimating calories. Things like MyFitnessPal have been a boon to countless people trying to lose weight because they can actually get a handle on what their intake really is. Bonus, they can compare across food choices to see what will fit in their caloric budget but still be filling or satisfying. I'll issue you a counter-challenge: watch "Secret Eaters".
      - nommm-nommm 11y ago
        Yes, they typically under report their calorie intake, not over report it. Its not really socially acceptable to eat like 10 chocolate bars a day and hardly anything else so why say you do when you really don't?
  - npsimons 11y ago
    The question is moot; sawdust is basically pure undigestible fiber (poor mans Metamucil), so since the caloric content of it is virtually nil, it would be impossible to consume 10,000 calories of it.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      The caloric content of olive oil is not virtually nil, and you can in fact consume a whole bottle of olive oil. Does "thermodynamics" dictate that you'll gain several pounds of fat after you do that? Your answer, of course, is "no". So just to move the conversation forwards: do you think if 3 random people consumed a bottle of olive oil, they would necessarily gain an equivalent amount of weight? Why or why not?
      - npsimons 11y ago
        This question is facetious, almost as facetious as the "10,000 calories of sawdust". Almost. The human body can only process so much fat at once based on bile production. On top of all that, I would say no, I wouldn't gain several pounds of fat after consuming a whole bottle of olive oil because it wouldn't be 3500 calories (12floz = 24 tablespoons * 119 calories = 2856 calories), even assuming I don't poop most of it out (as can be seen on Youtube videos). That doesn't change the fact that a tablespoon of olive oil contains 119 calories and up to a certain volume the human digestive tract will extract energy from it. Second, I don't think three random people would gain the equivalent amount of weight; that's one of my points I've made elsewhere. TDEE for different people is different, based on height, weight (heavier people have higher TDEEs, which is ironic because it makes it easier for them to lose weight), and activity level. If you're talking three people of the same height, weight, strictly controlled activity level and strictly controlled intake, then I would expect their weight gain to be as close to identical as to make no difference. There's always some variance (within 200-300 Kcal: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/ http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...) Since we're cherry picking completely unrealistic intakes, I'll pose back to you: if three random people consumed 3500 calories worth of refined sugar, and that exceeded their TDEE by 3500 calories, then yes, each and every one of them would gain 1lb of adipose tissue. Seeing that many in the US easily approach an intake of this much refined sugar in the form of soda, the results (of the population, 2/3 is overweight, and 1/3 is obese) should not be surprising.
nommm-nommm 11y ago
I didn't say they weren't losing weight on 1300 calories a day.

tptacek 11y ago

"Thermodynamics"? There are 120 calories in a tablespoon of olive oil. If I pay you $50 to drink a whole bottle of olive oil, do you think you'll gain several pounds of fat?

cgh 11y ago
To elaborate upon this point, let's say I gave you 10,000 calories of sawdust to eat every day for a week. Would you gain weight or lose weight, ignoring the other health consequences?
- nommm-nommm 11y ago
  Similar - I saw an episode of Superfat vs Superskinny where the superskinny guy ate almost nothing but chocolate. His calorie intake was probably 4000 calories a day or more yet he was unhealthy skinny. Do you think he was lying?
  - undersuit 11y ago
    I did not watch this show so I have are some questions. 1. Was the skinny individual monitored the entire time? He could have regurgitated his food. 2. Was the skinny person's poop analyzed for complete digestion of the 4000 calories?
    - nommm-nommm 11y ago
      No, its not some sort of science experiment, its mindless entertainment. 4000 calories was a wild gestimation of something I saw probably 5 years ago. The premise of the show is they bring in two people - one superfat and one superskinny. They weight them and each person tells what a typical day's food intake is for them. Then they switch diets for a couple weeks and are weighed again at the end. Yes, its possible he lied about eating all that chocolate. Yes, he could be throwing up every day. This isn't a controlled experiment, its a TV show. It seems odd someone would do that though.
  - npsimons 11y ago
    > Do you think he was lying? Yes. If there's anything reading diet studies has taught me, it's that people lie, to themselves even, and people are very bad at estimating calories. Things like MyFitnessPal have been a boon to countless people trying to lose weight because they can actually get a handle on what their intake really is. Bonus, they can compare across food choices to see what will fit in their caloric budget but still be filling or satisfying. I'll issue you a counter-challenge: watch "Secret Eaters".
    - nommm-nommm 11y ago
      Yes, they typically under report their calorie intake, not over report it. Its not really socially acceptable to eat like 10 chocolate bars a day and hardly anything else so why say you do when you really don't?
- npsimons 11y ago
  The question is moot; sawdust is basically pure undigestible fiber (poor mans Metamucil), so since the caloric content of it is virtually nil, it would be impossible to consume 10,000 calories of it.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    The caloric content of olive oil is not virtually nil, and you can in fact consume a whole bottle of olive oil. Does "thermodynamics" dictate that you'll gain several pounds of fat after you do that? Your answer, of course, is "no". So just to move the conversation forwards: do you think if 3 random people consumed a bottle of olive oil, they would necessarily gain an equivalent amount of weight? Why or why not?
    - npsimons 11y ago
      This question is facetious, almost as facetious as the "10,000 calories of sawdust". Almost. The human body can only process so much fat at once based on bile production. On top of all that, I would say no, I wouldn't gain several pounds of fat after consuming a whole bottle of olive oil because it wouldn't be 3500 calories (12floz = 24 tablespoons * 119 calories = 2856 calories), even assuming I don't poop most of it out (as can be seen on Youtube videos). That doesn't change the fact that a tablespoon of olive oil contains 119 calories and up to a certain volume the human digestive tract will extract energy from it. Second, I don't think three random people would gain the equivalent amount of weight; that's one of my points I've made elsewhere. TDEE for different people is different, based on height, weight (heavier people have higher TDEEs, which is ironic because it makes it easier for them to lose weight), and activity level. If you're talking three people of the same height, weight, strictly controlled activity level and strictly controlled intake, then I would expect their weight gain to be as close to identical as to make no difference. There's always some variance (within 200-300 Kcal: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/ http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...) Since we're cherry picking completely unrealistic intakes, I'll pose back to you: if three random people consumed 3500 calories worth of refined sugar, and that exceeded their TDEE by 3500 calories, then yes, each and every one of them would gain 1lb of adipose tissue. Seeing that many in the US easily approach an intake of this much refined sugar in the form of soda, the results (of the population, 2/3 is overweight, and 1/3 is obese) should not be surprising.

nommm-nommm 11y ago

I didn't say they weren't losing weight on 1300 calories a day.