4 ms·

I've noticed a strong pop-psych trend these days of referring to one's own feelings or experiences in terms of neurotransmitters. e.g. "I'm hooked on the dopami

by NickM 11y ago

I've noticed a strong pop-psych trend these days of referring to one's own feelings or experiences in terms of neurotransmitters. e.g. "I'm hooked on the dopamine rush of such-and-such activity," "I'm feeling blue today, my serotonin must be low," etc. This drives me crazy. It's pure pseudoscience, and I hear it from people who should know better. Scientifically, we have very little idea what chemicals are actually behind different subjective feelings/moods/whatever. Everyone would love to believe that the brain operates in a simple, intuitive fashion, with one chemical for joy, one chemical for sadness, one chemical for anger, etc., but the reality is way more complex and nuanced. For example, even something well-studied like dopamine, which has been strongly linked with the brain's addiction circuitry, doesn't necessarily stimulate any sort of direct pleasurable feeling as people often infer. It seems to work in a much subtler way, modulating learning, attention, and goal-seeking behavior. A recent study found that it doesn't even necessarily spike when good things happen, but tends to increase in response to unexpected events, good or bad.

heimatau 11y ago
> "I'm feeling blue today, my serotonin must be low," etc. This drives me crazy. It's pure pseudoscience, Yeah. I think it's a pseudoscience too. Even though 5HTP and St. John's Wort produce a 'happy feeling' to me and many others. It doesn't last. Even with modern day SSRIs and other depression meds, pill holidays are recommended. Pill holidays shows me that they are an imperfect solution. I would tell a person in a wheelchair to 'try and walk it off' for a few days/weeks. That's unfair to their illness, yet psych does that with their meds. > but the reality is way more complex and nuanced. I couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully, we'll have a medical breakthrough in psych in the next 20 years. With all the investment, I'm optimistic.
- DigitalJack 11y ago
  You need to be careful with the pill holiday thing. When I was taking venlafaxine, the withdrawl happened very fast and was miserable... if I missed two days I was in trouble.
  - steve-howard 11y ago
    My "discontinuation syndrome" was coming off desvenlafaxine. My access to it was suddenly taken away so I had no choice but to sit through the brain zaps for probably a week or two. You can't be sure how long it's going to last and that shit is as unpleasant as it gets.
    - bluedevil2k 11y ago
      This is why you need to taper off the drugs over 4 weeks. If it takes 4 weeks to start working, it makes sense it should take your brain the same amount of time to work properly without them.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        Coming off venlafaxine is considerably more unpleasant than going on venlafaxine, even with correct titration up and down.
      - johnward 11y ago
        Even with tapering I get severe sides from ssri/ssri drugs.
      - steve-howard 11y ago
        If I had had the choice I would have tapered, but I had an adverse reaction to it and it wasn't handled very well.
- tachyonbeam 11y ago
  The reason it doesn't last is that you're building a tolerance. Your brain tries to adapt so that it can bring you back to "baseline". If such mechanisms weren't in place, then a change in diet could have a massive impact on our moods and mental stability.
  - rudolf0 11y ago
    I agree; this article is a little misleading. Any substance that rapidly releases serotonin will definitely make you feel happy, if you're not already tolerant. It's obviously more complex than just being "the happy neurotransmitter", but it is tied to general mood.
    - tachyonbeam 11y ago
      It is tied to mood, the reason it's more complicated though is that there are many clusters of neuron in the brain which use serotonin to communicate. There are 14 known serotonin receptor subtypes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor#Subtypes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor#Subtypes). Psychedelic drugs (mushrooms, LSD, etc) typically act on 5-HT2a receptors. Serotonin is involved in perceptual filtering, hence why fractal patterns and hallucinations can occur when 5-HT2a is triggered. I would actually say that there's a more obvious link between dopamine and mood than serotonin. Dopamine releasers (amphetamines, meth, ritalin, cocaine) produce an immediate uplifting and confidence-boosting effect. MDMA doesn't just release serotonin, it also releases dopamine. The serotonin release from MDMA is responsible for its powerful anti-anxiety effect. It's believed that the "loved up" feeling from that drug is due to an indirect action of serotonin which eventually produce oxytocin release.
  - johnward 11y ago
    I don't know if you mean daily dietary changes but I feel very different mentally when on a strict keto diet.
rudolf0 11y ago
>doesn't necessarily stimulate any sort of direct pleasurable feeling as people often infer. Dopamine is very complex and acts on different receptors to achieve varying effects, but a sudden spike in dopamine concentration in many parts of the brain, like the nucleus accumbens, will usually result in a pleasurable feeling. This can be seen in people with dopamine-related disorders, like bipolar, and dopamine-releasing substances like amphetamine.

by NickM 11y ago

heimatau 11y ago

> "I'm feeling blue today, my serotonin must be low," etc. This drives me crazy. It's pure pseudoscience, Yeah. I think it's a pseudoscience too. Even though 5HTP and St. John's Wort produce a 'happy feeling' to me and many others. It doesn't last. Even with modern day SSRIs and other depression meds, pill holidays are recommended. Pill holidays shows me that they are an imperfect solution. I would tell a person in a wheelchair to 'try and walk it off' for a few days/weeks. That's unfair to their illness, yet psych does that with their meds. > but the reality is way more complex and nuanced. I couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully, we'll have a medical breakthrough in psych in the next 20 years. With all the investment, I'm optimistic.

DigitalJack 11y ago
You need to be careful with the pill holiday thing. When I was taking venlafaxine, the withdrawl happened very fast and was miserable... if I missed two days I was in trouble.
- steve-howard 11y ago
  My "discontinuation syndrome" was coming off desvenlafaxine. My access to it was suddenly taken away so I had no choice but to sit through the brain zaps for probably a week or two. You can't be sure how long it's going to last and that shit is as unpleasant as it gets.
  - bluedevil2k 11y ago
    This is why you need to taper off the drugs over 4 weeks. If it takes 4 weeks to start working, it makes sense it should take your brain the same amount of time to work properly without them.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Coming off venlafaxine is considerably more unpleasant than going on venlafaxine, even with correct titration up and down.
    - johnward 11y ago
      Even with tapering I get severe sides from ssri/ssri drugs.
    - steve-howard 11y ago
      If I had had the choice I would have tapered, but I had an adverse reaction to it and it wasn't handled very well.
tachyonbeam 11y ago
The reason it doesn't last is that you're building a tolerance. Your brain tries to adapt so that it can bring you back to "baseline". If such mechanisms weren't in place, then a change in diet could have a massive impact on our moods and mental stability.
- rudolf0 11y ago
  I agree; this article is a little misleading. Any substance that rapidly releases serotonin will definitely make you feel happy, if you're not already tolerant. It's obviously more complex than just being "the happy neurotransmitter", but it is tied to general mood.
  - tachyonbeam 11y ago
    It is tied to mood, the reason it's more complicated though is that there are many clusters of neuron in the brain which use serotonin to communicate. There are 14 known serotonin receptor subtypes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor#Subtypes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor#Subtypes). Psychedelic drugs (mushrooms, LSD, etc) typically act on 5-HT2a receptors. Serotonin is involved in perceptual filtering, hence why fractal patterns and hallucinations can occur when 5-HT2a is triggered. I would actually say that there's a more obvious link between dopamine and mood than serotonin. Dopamine releasers (amphetamines, meth, ritalin, cocaine) produce an immediate uplifting and confidence-boosting effect. MDMA doesn't just release serotonin, it also releases dopamine. The serotonin release from MDMA is responsible for its powerful anti-anxiety effect. It's believed that the "loved up" feeling from that drug is due to an indirect action of serotonin which eventually produce oxytocin release.
- johnward 11y ago
  I don't know if you mean daily dietary changes but I feel very different mentally when on a strict keto diet.

rudolf0 11y ago

>doesn't necessarily stimulate any sort of direct pleasurable feeling as people often infer. Dopamine is very complex and acts on different receptors to achieve varying effects, but a sudden spike in dopamine concentration in many parts of the brain, like the nucleus accumbens, will usually result in a pleasurable feeling. This can be seen in people with dopamine-related disorders, like bipolar, and dopamine-releasing substances like amphetamine.