6 ms·

Solar Sinter: Solar-powered 3D printer that sinters sand into 3D objects (2011)

88 points by ph0rque 11y ago

wiz21 11y ago
The only point this raises is : are they serious ? This looks quite akin to the Solar Impulse project. It makes us dream of something that looks like a very bad way to treat the actual problem. This guy's energy would be better spend at tackling the economical and political problems we have to solve to actually improve the situation... And we need more than a dream...
- Zikes 11y ago
  He's an engineer, not a politician. You don't get to vote on what he works on or decide what is important to him. Sintering is an emerging 3D printing tech now that the patent has expired. We can't predict what all the potential applications are or what impact it will have on society.
  - 50CNT 11y ago
    That's an interesting point on patents isn't it. Things become emerging tech once the patents on it expire.
    - matthewmacleod 11y ago
      That's not really an inference you can make. In this case, that's happened – but there are plenty of recent, popular technologies that are also patented. Look at any modern smartphone, for example!
      - 50CNT 11y ago
        Yeah, but it does seem like interesting tech that was kept under wraps gets a comeback tour once patent protections run out. Consumer 3D printing is an interesting case, because the wealth of extrusion deposition products came after the patents ran out. Same thing now with interesting developments in SLS. Patent runs out, some enthusiasts rig up their own, exchange knowledge over the web, and turn industrial technology into open hardware products. I think the thing here is that companies owning these patents just never thought about the consumer and hobbyist markets. But their patents prevented people selling and innovating in these spaces, thus letting these markets lie fallow. What happens to markets when the legal monopoly stops selling? Now consumer electronics is a field where there's a lot of motion. But imagine the Smartphone(tm) was patented, and the owner of the patent decided to do industrial PDAs instead and abandon the consumer market. They still prevent others from selling to the consumer market, even they don't loose anything from that except some vacuous "potential revenue". Trademarks elapse when they're not used, and names can be used in different markets when there's no chance of confusion (Nissan Motors vs. Nissan Computers). Patents (outside of I think 2 renewal dates) don't quite work that way. The question is, do they prevent technology from jumping into different markets by virtue of their broadness?
      - deckar01 11y ago
        Smartphones are a really bad example. Those patents created an arms race between a small group of large tech companies. If you try to limp into that market you will get sued from every angle. The only winners are those who make pacts based on mutually assured destruction[0]. [0] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars
- chillingeffect 11y ago
  Depending on my state of mind, I agree perfectly with you. Really, the point of things like this is to be a spectacle, to be "wrong" and take no shame in being so AND... ...to create enough of an emotional debacle that it lures people into dreaming of the right way. So in a way, we've falling directly into his trap. :) Of course, it can get tedious when projects like this insist they are correct, but at least this guy states specifically below the video "Whilst not providing definitive answers, this experiment aims to provide a point of departure for fresh thinking."
agumonkey 11y ago
There was a news about metal sintering used for an actual market (sorry, memory failing). That reminded me of this video and got me wondering how complicated it was to control the beam focus and energy. To allow for finer and leaner shapes.
- VLM 11y ago
  Sintered metal bushings soaked with oil. Chrysler invented them around 1930. Trademarked name is "oilite". A very popular product for many decades, probably some in your car or house today. It really blows some peoples minds when what looks like a block of solid bronze soaks up to maybe a fifth its volume of oil. For something thats 20% hollow its also remarkably strong. Its an example of a piece of technology that depends on numerous contemporary things. You need razor sharp cutting tools to keep the pores open, so it has to be a "post-carbide" era tool. You need a vacuum pump to fill the pores with oil. You need modern non-drying low acidity mineral oils because something like veg oil or whale oil would break down both the bearing and the shaft in a couple years. The powder is heated precisely and under some pressure, a lot more precise than a blacksmiths shop. Speaking of pressure, reproducible and reliable sintering seems to always require some amount of pressure, which is a problem for 3-d printing, either you're using somewhat exotic process, or the product needed pressure so it is going to be weak.
- phunge 11y ago
  You're probably thinking of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering which is pretty widespread -- for example you can order metal parts straight off ShapeWays that are SLS!
  - fudged71 11y ago
    I wonder if a solar sintering machine could be made nearly as precise as an SLS machine. Maybe if you could focus the beam into a fibre optic cable and measure the intensity of light to control the path planning.
Intermernet 11y ago
Somewhat related: Cory Doctorow's shortish story "The Man Who Sold The Moon". http://boingboing.net/2015/05/22/the-man-who-sold-the-moon.html http://boingboing.net/2015/05/22/the-man-who-sold-the-moon.h...
- jagermo 11y ago
  It also appears in "Homeland", his follow-up to "Little Brother".
- Someone 11y ago
  Nice story. I guess the title is a reference to Heinlein's version (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon), which has greed/capitalism conquer the moon.
- gene-h 11y ago
  NASA is currently trying to do something like that: http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/space-robots/hawaiian-robot-landing-pad-construction http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/space-robots/haw...
hidroto 11y ago
i can think of a few obvious improvements but the first thing i would add would be a shutter.when he was setting it up i was worried he would burn his back or something in the beam.
alex_duf 11y ago
this needs a tag [2011]
- dang 11y ago
  Added.
jlebrech 11y ago
I'd like a device like this to create a moon base
- ccozan 11y ago
  Here is an interesting project : http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2008/lunar_telescopes.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2008/lunar...
- avian 11y ago
  There was a talk at 32c3 about that: https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7336-3d_printing_on_the_moon https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7336-3d_printing_on_the_moon
OldSchoolJohnny 11y ago
All that time in the video and all but zero seconds showing the finished product which is surely the point?
- michaelbuckbee 11y ago
  Not sure why the posted link went to that page instead of the overview (with separate pictures). Here: http://www.markuskayser.com/work/solarsinter/ http://www.markuskayser.com/work/solarsinter/
- Retric 11y ago
  The finished product is only useful as 'Art'. However, you can actually make useful things with a similar approach. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace IMO, this is just cool as an easy to understand 3d printer.
ChuckMcM 11y ago
This is an older article, but still interesting. I used my scavenged fresnel lens from an old projection TV to try and melt sand. It works (kind of) but control is a challenge.

88 points by ph0rque 11y ago

wiz21 11y ago

The only point this raises is : are they serious ? This looks quite akin to the Solar Impulse project. It makes us dream of something that looks like a very bad way to treat the actual problem. This guy's energy would be better spend at tackling the economical and political problems we have to solve to actually improve the situation... And we need more than a dream...

Zikes 11y ago
He's an engineer, not a politician. You don't get to vote on what he works on or decide what is important to him. Sintering is an emerging 3D printing tech now that the patent has expired. We can't predict what all the potential applications are or what impact it will have on society.
- 50CNT 11y ago
  That's an interesting point on patents isn't it. Things become emerging tech once the patents on it expire.
  - matthewmacleod 11y ago
    That's not really an inference you can make. In this case, that's happened – but there are plenty of recent, popular technologies that are also patented. Look at any modern smartphone, for example!
    - 50CNT 11y ago
      Yeah, but it does seem like interesting tech that was kept under wraps gets a comeback tour once patent protections run out. Consumer 3D printing is an interesting case, because the wealth of extrusion deposition products came after the patents ran out. Same thing now with interesting developments in SLS. Patent runs out, some enthusiasts rig up their own, exchange knowledge over the web, and turn industrial technology into open hardware products. I think the thing here is that companies owning these patents just never thought about the consumer and hobbyist markets. But their patents prevented people selling and innovating in these spaces, thus letting these markets lie fallow. What happens to markets when the legal monopoly stops selling? Now consumer electronics is a field where there's a lot of motion. But imagine the Smartphone(tm) was patented, and the owner of the patent decided to do industrial PDAs instead and abandon the consumer market. They still prevent others from selling to the consumer market, even they don't loose anything from that except some vacuous "potential revenue". Trademarks elapse when they're not used, and names can be used in different markets when there's no chance of confusion (Nissan Motors vs. Nissan Computers). Patents (outside of I think 2 renewal dates) don't quite work that way. The question is, do they prevent technology from jumping into different markets by virtue of their broadness?
    - deckar01 11y ago
      Smartphones are a really bad example. Those patents created an arms race between a small group of large tech companies. If you try to limp into that market you will get sued from every angle. The only winners are those who make pacts based on mutually assured destruction[0]. [0] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars
chillingeffect 11y ago
Depending on my state of mind, I agree perfectly with you. Really, the point of things like this is to be a spectacle, to be "wrong" and take no shame in being so AND... ...to create enough of an emotional debacle that it lures people into dreaming of the right way. So in a way, we've falling directly into his trap. :) Of course, it can get tedious when projects like this insist they are correct, but at least this guy states specifically below the video "Whilst not providing definitive answers, this experiment aims to provide a point of departure for fresh thinking."

agumonkey 11y ago

There was a news about metal sintering used for an actual market (sorry, memory failing). That reminded me of this video and got me wondering how complicated it was to control the beam focus and energy. To allow for finer and leaner shapes.

VLM 11y ago
Sintered metal bushings soaked with oil. Chrysler invented them around 1930. Trademarked name is "oilite". A very popular product for many decades, probably some in your car or house today. It really blows some peoples minds when what looks like a block of solid bronze soaks up to maybe a fifth its volume of oil. For something thats 20% hollow its also remarkably strong. Its an example of a piece of technology that depends on numerous contemporary things. You need razor sharp cutting tools to keep the pores open, so it has to be a "post-carbide" era tool. You need a vacuum pump to fill the pores with oil. You need modern non-drying low acidity mineral oils because something like veg oil or whale oil would break down both the bearing and the shaft in a couple years. The powder is heated precisely and under some pressure, a lot more precise than a blacksmiths shop. Speaking of pressure, reproducible and reliable sintering seems to always require some amount of pressure, which is a problem for 3-d printing, either you're using somewhat exotic process, or the product needed pressure so it is going to be weak.
phunge 11y ago
You're probably thinking of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering which is pretty widespread -- for example you can order metal parts straight off ShapeWays that are SLS!
- fudged71 11y ago
  I wonder if a solar sintering machine could be made nearly as precise as an SLS machine. Maybe if you could focus the beam into a fibre optic cable and measure the intensity of light to control the path planning.

Intermernet 11y ago

Somewhat related: Cory Doctorow's shortish story "The Man Who Sold The Moon". http://boingboing.net/2015/05/22/the-man-who-sold-the-moon.html http://boingboing.net/2015/05/22/the-man-who-sold-the-moon.h...

jagermo 11y ago
It also appears in "Homeland", his follow-up to "Little Brother".
Someone 11y ago
Nice story. I guess the title is a reference to Heinlein's version (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon), which has greed/capitalism conquer the moon.
gene-h 11y ago
NASA is currently trying to do something like that: http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/space-robots/hawaiian-robot-landing-pad-construction http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/space-robots/haw...

hidroto 11y ago

i can think of a few obvious improvements but the first thing i would add would be a shutter.when he was setting it up i was worried he would burn his back or something in the beam.

alex_duf 11y ago

this needs a tag [2011]

dang 11y ago
Added.

jlebrech 11y ago

I'd like a device like this to create a moon base

ccozan 11y ago
Here is an interesting project : http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2008/lunar_telescopes.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2008/lunar...
avian 11y ago
There was a talk at 32c3 about that: https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7336-3d_printing_on_the_moon https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7336-3d_printing_on_the_moon

OldSchoolJohnny 11y ago

All that time in the video and all but zero seconds showing the finished product which is surely the point?

michaelbuckbee 11y ago
Not sure why the posted link went to that page instead of the overview (with separate pictures). Here: http://www.markuskayser.com/work/solarsinter/ http://www.markuskayser.com/work/solarsinter/
Retric 11y ago
The finished product is only useful as 'Art'. However, you can actually make useful things with a similar approach. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace IMO, this is just cool as an easy to understand 3d printer.

ChuckMcM 11y ago

This is an older article, but still interesting. I used my scavenged fresnel lens from an old projection TV to try and melt sand. It works (kind of) but control is a challenge.