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I doubt the CIA were gaming Google in the 60s. It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material th

I doubt the CIA were gaming Google in the 60s. It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material that came their way. The fake aircraft seems more reasonable though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50#Development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50#Development > The first two Ka-50 prototypes had false windows painted on them.[19] The "windows" evidently worked, as the first western reports of the aircraft were wildly inaccurate, to the point of some analysts even concluding its primary mission was as an air superiority aircraft for hunting and killing NATO attack helicopters.

vasilipupkin 11y ago
don't overestimate Soviet competence. Soviet system was completely submersed in the sea of utter incompetence, with occasional pockets of competence here and there
- marshray 11y ago
  It's more about "how can we waste their time" than it is about competence.
- noobermin 11y ago
  I don't know, I can't speak for their military leaders, but I've read Soviet physics papers and they had (funded and educated) some solid scientists.
  - golergka 11y ago
    Physics as a field doesn't have the same pressures and people aspiring to it as intelligence military analytics.
    - varjag 11y ago
      Also in physics, you can't get away with politicking and reading the Party plenary speeches alone. That nuke better has to work and is easily verifiable: Beria, the head of Soviet secret police, personally compared the mushroom cloud photo of the U.S. test to the Soviet one, to ensure the bomb was copied correctly.
      - sgt101 11y ago
        I wonder what he'd have concluded if it had looked different?!
        vkou 11y ago
        That the discrepancies were the work of wreckers and saboteurs. Probably followed by liquidation of the parties responsible.
    - kls 11y ago
      While I agree intel and physics are apples to oranges, the soviets had a pretty good intelligence arm and quite capable analytics. The soviets where very good at Human Intelligence: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150928/1027670037/kgb-cia-agents-outing.html http://sputniknews.com/military/20150928/1027670037/kgb-cia-...
      - golergka 11y ago
        Yeah, nothing tells true stories about KGB like the face of modern Russian propaganda machine.
        kls 11y ago
        The facts are easily verifiable read about Yuri Totrov. It is well documented by both sides.
- ild 11y ago
  Don't underestimate either. Soviet/Russian rocket engines are still better than American.
mikkom 11y ago
> I doubt the CIA were gaming Google in the 60s Not Google but they were gaming ufo people. Thee was a good documentary about this called "Mirage Men" http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/14/men-in-black-ufo-sightings-mirage-makers-movie http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/14/men-in-black-ufo...
- bill343 11y ago
  Mirage Men is great.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material that came their way. Communist Russia was coming apart at the seams, and it took the US many years to realize it. There's a lot of complexity.
- ild 11y ago
  USSR. Russia has never been falling apart. Calling USSR Russia is HLN/Fox level discussion.
  - clock_tower 11y ago
    The terms were interchangeable back in the Cold War, everywhere outside academia; and there are interesting continuities between the Tsars and the Soviets. "Glasnost" and "perestroika" were first used in reference to Peter the Great's policies, and Great Russia (Russia proper) was known as Red Russia as far back as, I think, the 1400s. Also: _The Structures of Everyday Life_ and _Simplicius Simplicissimus_ both touch on Russia, in ways that suggest that the country (post-Mongol-conquest) always did have a certain amount of proto-Sovietness to it -- alcohol sales as a state monopoly, for example, or arms always coming from royal treasuries.
    - ild 11y ago
      It was used during the Cold War, because it was important to simplify, demonize the enemy. Russian Ivan with bottle of vodka, in a tank, driven by a brown bear with ushanka creates an a lot more simple image; you add Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Armenians, dozen of languages, without profound racial discrimination - and people will start having the Thoughts; counterproductive for the narrative of the Cold War.
  - vpalanc1 11y ago
    Except right now?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
bill343 11y ago
》It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material that came their way. The USSR was not much of a superpower in the technology side. They got ALL of their technology from western corporations in technology transfers and sales from 1917 to today. They constantly got "last years model" of weapons and tech. This is documented in a three volume scholarly work called "Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development 1917 - 1930, 1930-1945, 1945-1965". Also I find it funny this is released the same week the X-Files returns to Fox. Talk about the CIA / Entertainment nexus.
- SocksCanClose 11y ago
  TLDR 10/10 would make this assessment again. USSR Tech:US/British Tech::Bizzaro:Superman. Like them or not, but it is actually quite hard to copy-paste Raytheon, General Dynamics, BAE Systems et al into a system that uses force as its key mechanism of control.

vasilipupkin 11y ago

don't overestimate Soviet competence. Soviet system was completely submersed in the sea of utter incompetence, with occasional pockets of competence here and there

marshray 11y ago
It's more about "how can we waste their time" than it is about competence.
noobermin 11y ago
I don't know, I can't speak for their military leaders, but I've read Soviet physics papers and they had (funded and educated) some solid scientists.
- golergka 11y ago
  Physics as a field doesn't have the same pressures and people aspiring to it as intelligence military analytics.
  - varjag 11y ago
    Also in physics, you can't get away with politicking and reading the Party plenary speeches alone. That nuke better has to work and is easily verifiable: Beria, the head of Soviet secret police, personally compared the mushroom cloud photo of the U.S. test to the Soviet one, to ensure the bomb was copied correctly.
    - sgt101 11y ago
      I wonder what he'd have concluded if it had looked different?!
      - vkou 11y ago
        That the discrepancies were the work of wreckers and saboteurs. Probably followed by liquidation of the parties responsible.
  - kls 11y ago
    While I agree intel and physics are apples to oranges, the soviets had a pretty good intelligence arm and quite capable analytics. The soviets where very good at Human Intelligence: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150928/1027670037/kgb-cia-agents-outing.html http://sputniknews.com/military/20150928/1027670037/kgb-cia-...
    - golergka 11y ago
      Yeah, nothing tells true stories about KGB like the face of modern Russian propaganda machine.
      - kls 11y ago
        The facts are easily verifiable read about Yuri Totrov. It is well documented by both sides.
ild 11y ago
Don't underestimate either. Soviet/Russian rocket engines are still better than American.

mikkom 11y ago

> I doubt the CIA were gaming Google in the 60s Not Google but they were gaming ufo people. Thee was a good documentary about this called "Mirage Men" http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/14/men-in-black-ufo-sightings-mirage-makers-movie http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/14/men-in-black-ufo...

bill343 11y ago
Mirage Men is great.

forgetsusername 11y ago

>It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material that came their way. Communist Russia was coming apart at the seams, and it took the US many years to realize it. There's a lot of complexity.

ild 11y ago
USSR. Russia has never been falling apart. Calling USSR Russia is HLN/Fox level discussion.
- clock_tower 11y ago
  The terms were interchangeable back in the Cold War, everywhere outside academia; and there are interesting continuities between the Tsars and the Soviets. "Glasnost" and "perestroika" were first used in reference to Peter the Great's policies, and Great Russia (Russia proper) was known as Red Russia as far back as, I think, the 1400s. Also: _The Structures of Everyday Life_ and _Simplicius Simplicissimus_ both touch on Russia, in ways that suggest that the country (post-Mongol-conquest) always did have a certain amount of proto-Sovietness to it -- alcohol sales as a state monopoly, for example, or arms always coming from royal treasuries.
  - ild 11y ago
    It was used during the Cold War, because it was important to simplify, demonize the enemy. Russian Ivan with bottle of vodka, in a tank, driven by a brown bear with ushanka creates an a lot more simple image; you add Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Armenians, dozen of languages, without profound racial discrimination - and people will start having the Thoughts; counterproductive for the narrative of the Cold War.
- vpalanc1 11y ago
  Except right now?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

bill343 11y ago

》It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material that came their way. The USSR was not much of a superpower in the technology side. They got ALL of their technology from western corporations in technology transfers and sales from 1917 to today. They constantly got "last years model" of weapons and tech. This is documented in a three volume scholarly work called "Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development 1917 - 1930, 1930-1945, 1945-1965". Also I find it funny this is released the same week the X-Files returns to Fox. Talk about the CIA / Entertainment nexus.

SocksCanClose 11y ago
TLDR 10/10 would make this assessment again. USSR Tech:US/British Tech::Bizzaro:Superman. Like them or not, but it is actually quite hard to copy-paste Raytheon, General Dynamics, BAE Systems et al into a system that uses force as its key mechanism of control.