12 ms·

I'm surprised they're continuing the misdirection so many years later. "Unidentified flying object" means an aircraft, usually a military one (because civilian

I'm surprised they're continuing the misdirection so many years later. "Unidentified flying object" means an aircraft, usually a military one (because civilian aircraft are easier to identify). A UFO over US soil would usually be a USAF plane, but the CIA ran (runs?) a reporting hotline because they might occasionally be foreign spy planes instead. But of course, the Soviets were very interested (or the US believed they were very interested) in knowing about US military planes and their capabilities. There's an anecdote I recall reading - I apologize for not having the link handy - about how, at Area 51 (their airfield for testing experimental aircraft), they would leave big airplane-shaped objects on the tarmac to create cold spots for Soviets' spy satellites to photograph in infrared, corresponding to planes that didn't exist. The reason I'm unable to find that anecdote is because the search term "Area 51", combined with any other search terms, brings up an enormous a flood of incoherent crackpot ramblings. I'm pretty sure this is the result of a deliberate strategy: create a bunch of fake information, so that real information about US military capabilities will be harder to find. A few hints and a few taunts, and voila, every discussion about unidentified aircraft is guaranteed to have a schizophrenic walk in and start rambling about aliens!

tomphoolery 11y ago
I remember hearing about this in a documentary, actually...so you might not be able to find the link because it doesn't exist on the Internet. :)
- miracle_code 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Men https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Men This one?
cmiles74 11y ago
I read a history of Area 51 that had several interesting stories in a similar vein. The book struck me as down-to-earth and well researched. http://www.amazon.com/Area-51-Uncensored-Americas-Military/dp/0316202304 http://www.amazon.com/Area-51-Uncensored-Americas-Military/d...
rburhum 11y ago
Oh, I remember reading something about this in the book "Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base"
sanoli 11y ago
There's probably a lot of this going. Comes to mind right now the way the Navy had about two seal teams in the beginning, and then decided to name the next one 'Team 6', to make it look like they had more. I've read about other examples, but can't remember right now.
- stvswn 11y ago
  "Delta Force" is not what it's called, either. The Army cycles through bureaucratic sounding names -- "Combat Applications Group" for example -- in order to keep it confusing. "Delta" comes from one of these names -- "Operational Detachment: Delta." This sounds like an unimportant support team for a Special Forces group. "OD: Alpha" is the main team of green berets (aka, "ODA" or "the A-Team"). They are supported by 'OD: Bravo" and "OD: Charlie" (logistics support, etc.). So "OD: Delta" sounded meaningless to an uninformed listener. By the time Chuck Norris made "Delta Force" a known name for the pinnacle of Army Special Ops, they weren't actually called that anymore in reality.
  - lafytahoe 11y ago
    The army of Western Virginia.
    - freebasedgirl 11y ago
      The army of West Virginia.
  - run4yourlives2 11y ago
    They are currently called "1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta". They haven't changed their name in years (or ever, really). What you are likely confusing is "Seal Team 6", which is now properly listed as "United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group" or DEVGRU.
    - stvswn 11y ago
      Nope, that's not what I'm referring to. This is in the public domain: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/10/delta-force-gets-a-name-change/64310/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/10/delta-fo... I called them "CAG" in 2008. I'm willing to guess they're not even "ACE" anymore.
kevando 11y ago
Do you even info war?
simple10 11y ago
Here's a link that explains all the fakery used at Area 51 including the fake cardboard planes to fool infrared. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-51-secret-hid-craft-base-declassified-a-12-plane/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-...
dghughes 11y ago
>... at Area 51 (their airfield for testing experimental aircraft) I'm Canadian but that reminded of some relatives who sent a video of a birthday party. They were outside and a big booming noise could be heard and they all looked to see what it was. I didn't think much of it since it was hard to hear other than a sort of jet sound but they lived there and seemed to think it was different or unusual in some way. They lived in Apple Valley in the "high desert" (I didn't know what that meant) years later I found out Area 51 is pretty close. I don't beleive in aliens but it was interesting to know the video had a mysterious aircraft and Area 51 in it.
- goodcanadian 11y ago
  I doubt it was anything Area 51 related. They have a large highly restricted airspace over Nevada to fly around in. However, Apple Valley is even closer to Edwards Air Force Base which has a long history of flight test including things like Chuck Yeager's supersonic flight, and for that matter the Virgin Galactic spaceship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_Air_Force_Base https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_Air_Force_Base Many interesting things like the B-2 and the space shuttle were also produced in Palmdale (to the west of Apple Valley). You often see interesting things flying around that area. EDIT: Virgin Galactic has nothing directly to do with Edwards, but they test in that airspace.
antidamage 11y ago
I doubt the CIA were gaming Google in the 60s. It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material that came their way. The fake aircraft seems more reasonable though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50#Development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50#Development > The first two Ka-50 prototypes had false windows painted on them.[19] The "windows" evidently worked, as the first western reports of the aircraft were wildly inaccurate, to the point of some analysts even concluding its primary mission was as an air superiority aircraft for hunting and killing NATO attack helicopters.
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  don't overestimate Soviet competence. Soviet system was completely submersed in the sea of utter incompetence, with occasional pockets of competence here and there
  - marshray 11y ago
    It's more about "how can we waste their time" than it is about competence.
  - noobermin 11y ago
    I don't know, I can't speak for their military leaders, but I've read Soviet physics papers and they had (funded and educated) some solid scientists.
    - golergka 11y ago
      Physics as a field doesn't have the same pressures and people aspiring to it as intelligence military analytics.
      - varjag 11y ago
        Also in physics, you can't get away with politicking and reading the Party plenary speeches alone. That nuke better has to work and is easily verifiable: Beria, the head of Soviet secret police, personally compared the mushroom cloud photo of the U.S. test to the Soviet one, to ensure the bomb was copied correctly.
at-fates-hands 11y ago
>> they would leave big airplane-shaped objects on the tarmac to create cold spots for Soviets' spy satellites to photograph in infrared, corresponding to planes that didn't exist. You're referring to project OXCART which preceded the Blackbird program. The documentary you're referring to was called "Area 51 Declassified" which was on National Geographic channel: https://youtu.be/fE8xqTO6hXk https://youtu.be/fE8xqTO6hXk It's a fascinating documentary
rl3 11y ago
>A UFO over US soil would usually be a USAF plane, but the CIA ran (runs?) a reporting hotline because they might occasionally be foreign spy planes instead. The OXCART program (SR-71 predecessor) was a CIA program. This is probably one of the best pieces of journalism I've ever read on the topic: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-mag-april052009-backstory-story.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-mag-april052009-back... While the entire article is good, paragraphs 5-8 are by far the best. The CIA literally drugged their own test pilot during debriefing. >I'm pretty sure this is the result of a deliberate strategy: create a bunch of fake information, so that real information about US military capabilities will be harder to find. A few hints and a few taunts, and voila, every discussion about unidentified aircraft is guaranteed to have a schizophrenic walk in and start rambling about aliens! I was actually just writing about this, except in context of aviation industry insiders perhaps misleading a respected industry journalist: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10971548 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10971548 Entire thread for context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957365
lectrick 11y ago
http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/89801/DOC_0000015340.pdf http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_convers... Page 3, point 4: "Sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and traveling at high speeds in the vicinity of major U.S. defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomenon or known types of aerial vehicles." Also note the National Security Council directive on the last page.
CountSessine 11y ago
The reason I'm unable to find that anecdote is because the search term "Area 51", combined with any other search terms, brings up an enormous a flood of incoherent crackpot ramblings You might have more luck if you google "Groom Lake Air Force Base".
sandworm101 11y ago
>>> "Unidentified flying object" means an aircraft, usually a military one (because civilian aircraft are easier to identify). There are only so many military aircraft and drones. They are relatively distinct. Add to those a handful of properly-black projects and there are perhaps a hundred types in service. Compare that to the thousands of civilian models out there, many of them very odd looking. Things like Rutan's VariEze get rather close to the flying-triangles. And some very unique objects, including random light patterns, also fly in the civilian world. So given the far greater number of civilian aircraft, outside of restricted airspace I'd say that most sightings are probably of strange but non-military flying vehicles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_VariEze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_VariEze http://www.hugeskyadvertising.com/Scrolling-LED-Flying-SIGN.html http://www.hugeskyadvertising.com/Scrolling-LED-Flying-SIGN....
V-2 11y ago
I recall a thought-provoking article about how a lot of UFO "folklor" (abductions, cows etc.) was fabricated at some point by secret service agencies in order to distract the UFO crowd from actually observing the sky. This is one of my favorite twists on conspiracy theories - that they themselves are often a product of conspiracies. Or that they get discreetly, erm what would be the right word, native speakers? Kinda "fed" (by controlled information leaks, for instance) if it serves some purpose.
Shivetya 11y ago
Anecdotal examples of the management of information and personal for this and similar areas. While in the military we had a sergeant transfer in from that area. They were flown to and from the base on transports without windows. While there were a lot of on base persons apparently there were quite a few who rotated out weekly. Later in the 90s working for a rent a guard company we had a special group doing perimeter security. These guards could not so much as bounce a check, get a traffic ticket, or be charged with a crime, without risking their jobs. The idea was that you don't get leverage on people who work in areas where things can be seen. You also tend to have some of the most over the top patriotic types who take pride in keeping the trust All that really circles back to the first part of my comment, the CIA and military had people dedicated to management of the story and the people involved. Legends and myths can be created, you just have to plan it out and act on the plan correctly
LordKano 11y ago
An apparently metallic or luminous object in the sky at any time after the 1940s could possibly be explained away as experimental terrestrial craft but we have reports of such things going back much further in history. It's funny how today many people call them "flying saucers" due to a misunderstanding of Kenneth Arnold's description of the objects that he claims to have seen in 1947 because more than 800 years ago, someone reported seeing what he described as a "flying earthenware vessel" in the sky over Edo(Tokyo) Japan. People have been seeing things in the sky for a very long time. We simply don't know all of them are. Anyone who claims to know with absolute certainty what they are is just speculating. Chances are, that person just wants to sell you their book.
- Scarblac 11y ago
  But, as some XKCD notes, nowadays all of humanity walks around with great photo cameras all the time and nobody is taking pictures of UFOs with them.
  - LordKano 11y ago
    People take a lot of pictures of UFOs. Most of them are eventually identified as mundane.
itslennysfault 11y ago
Here ya go: http://jalopnik.com/5804400/area-51-secrets-the-us-military-used-fake-cardboard-cutouts-of-planes-to-fool-the-russians http://jalopnik.com/5804400/area-51-secrets-the-us-military-... It was the second match when I used the search query: area 51 cold spots russia satellite -alien
cyphar 11y ago
> I'm surprised they're continuing the misdirection so many years later. "Unidentified flying object" means an aircraft, usually a military one (because civilian aircraft are easier to identify). While this is true, it isn't incorrect to call them "unidentified flying objects". All top-secret aircraft projects are by definition unidentified flying objects. It's up to the crackpot bullshit artists to interpret "unidentified" as "confirmed alien".

tomphoolery 11y ago

I remember hearing about this in a documentary, actually...so you might not be able to find the link because it doesn't exist on the Internet. :)

miracle_code 11y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Men https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Men This one?

cmiles74 11y ago

I read a history of Area 51 that had several interesting stories in a similar vein. The book struck me as down-to-earth and well researched. http://www.amazon.com/Area-51-Uncensored-Americas-Military/dp/0316202304 http://www.amazon.com/Area-51-Uncensored-Americas-Military/d...

rburhum 11y ago

Oh, I remember reading something about this in the book "Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base"

sanoli 11y ago

There's probably a lot of this going. Comes to mind right now the way the Navy had about two seal teams in the beginning, and then decided to name the next one 'Team 6', to make it look like they had more. I've read about other examples, but can't remember right now.

stvswn 11y ago
"Delta Force" is not what it's called, either. The Army cycles through bureaucratic sounding names -- "Combat Applications Group" for example -- in order to keep it confusing. "Delta" comes from one of these names -- "Operational Detachment: Delta." This sounds like an unimportant support team for a Special Forces group. "OD: Alpha" is the main team of green berets (aka, "ODA" or "the A-Team"). They are supported by 'OD: Bravo" and "OD: Charlie" (logistics support, etc.). So "OD: Delta" sounded meaningless to an uninformed listener. By the time Chuck Norris made "Delta Force" a known name for the pinnacle of Army Special Ops, they weren't actually called that anymore in reality.
- lafytahoe 11y ago
  The army of Western Virginia.
  - freebasedgirl 11y ago
    The army of West Virginia.
- run4yourlives2 11y ago
  They are currently called "1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta". They haven't changed their name in years (or ever, really). What you are likely confusing is "Seal Team 6", which is now properly listed as "United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group" or DEVGRU.
  - stvswn 11y ago
    Nope, that's not what I'm referring to. This is in the public domain: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/10/delta-force-gets-a-name-change/64310/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/10/delta-fo... I called them "CAG" in 2008. I'm willing to guess they're not even "ACE" anymore.

kevando 11y ago

Do you even info war?

simple10 11y ago

Here's a link that explains all the fakery used at Area 51 including the fake cardboard planes to fool infrared. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-51-secret-hid-craft-base-declassified-a-12-plane/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-...

dghughes 11y ago

>... at Area 51 (their airfield for testing experimental aircraft) I'm Canadian but that reminded of some relatives who sent a video of a birthday party. They were outside and a big booming noise could be heard and they all looked to see what it was. I didn't think much of it since it was hard to hear other than a sort of jet sound but they lived there and seemed to think it was different or unusual in some way. They lived in Apple Valley in the "high desert" (I didn't know what that meant) years later I found out Area 51 is pretty close. I don't beleive in aliens but it was interesting to know the video had a mysterious aircraft and Area 51 in it.

goodcanadian 11y ago
I doubt it was anything Area 51 related. They have a large highly restricted airspace over Nevada to fly around in. However, Apple Valley is even closer to Edwards Air Force Base which has a long history of flight test including things like Chuck Yeager's supersonic flight, and for that matter the Virgin Galactic spaceship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_Air_Force_Base https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_Air_Force_Base Many interesting things like the B-2 and the space shuttle were also produced in Palmdale (to the west of Apple Valley). You often see interesting things flying around that area. EDIT: Virgin Galactic has nothing directly to do with Edwards, but they test in that airspace.

antidamage 11y ago

I doubt the CIA were gaming Google in the 60s. It's also beyond ridiculous to think that a superpower like the USSR couldn't completely evaluate any material that came their way. The fake aircraft seems more reasonable though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50#Development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50#Development > The first two Ka-50 prototypes had false windows painted on them.[19] The "windows" evidently worked, as the first western reports of the aircraft were wildly inaccurate, to the point of some analysts even concluding its primary mission was as an air superiority aircraft for hunting and killing NATO attack helicopters.

vasilipupkin 11y ago
don't overestimate Soviet competence. Soviet system was completely submersed in the sea of utter incompetence, with occasional pockets of competence here and there
- marshray 11y ago
  It's more about "how can we waste their time" than it is about competence.
- noobermin 11y ago
  I don't know, I can't speak for their military leaders, but I've read Soviet physics papers and they had (funded and educated) some solid scientists.
  - golergka 11y ago
    Physics as a field doesn't have the same pressures and people aspiring to it as intelligence military analytics.
    - varjag 11y ago
      Also in physics, you can't get away with politicking and reading the Party plenary speeches alone. That nuke better has to work and is easily verifiable: Beria, the head of Soviet secret police, personally compared the mushroom cloud photo of the U.S. test to the Soviet one, to ensure the bomb was copied correctly.

at-fates-hands 11y ago

>> they would leave big airplane-shaped objects on the tarmac to create cold spots for Soviets' spy satellites to photograph in infrared, corresponding to planes that didn't exist. You're referring to project OXCART which preceded the Blackbird program. The documentary you're referring to was called "Area 51 Declassified" which was on National Geographic channel: https://youtu.be/fE8xqTO6hXk https://youtu.be/fE8xqTO6hXk It's a fascinating documentary

rl3 11y ago

>A UFO over US soil would usually be a USAF plane, but the CIA ran (runs?) a reporting hotline because they might occasionally be foreign spy planes instead. The OXCART program (SR-71 predecessor) was a CIA program. This is probably one of the best pieces of journalism I've ever read on the topic: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-mag-april052009-backstory-story.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-mag-april052009-back... While the entire article is good, paragraphs 5-8 are by far the best. The CIA literally drugged their own test pilot during debriefing. >I'm pretty sure this is the result of a deliberate strategy: create a bunch of fake information, so that real information about US military capabilities will be harder to find. A few hints and a few taunts, and voila, every discussion about unidentified aircraft is guaranteed to have a schizophrenic walk in and start rambling about aliens! I was actually just writing about this, except in context of aviation industry insiders perhaps misleading a respected industry journalist: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10971548 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10971548 Entire thread for context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957365

lectrick 11y ago

http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/89801/DOC_0000015340.pdf http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_convers... Page 3, point 4: "Sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and traveling at high speeds in the vicinity of major U.S. defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomenon or known types of aerial vehicles." Also note the National Security Council directive on the last page.

CountSessine 11y ago

The reason I'm unable to find that anecdote is because the search term "Area 51", combined with any other search terms, brings up an enormous a flood of incoherent crackpot ramblings You might have more luck if you google "Groom Lake Air Force Base".

sandworm101 11y ago

>>> "Unidentified flying object" means an aircraft, usually a military one (because civilian aircraft are easier to identify). There are only so many military aircraft and drones. They are relatively distinct. Add to those a handful of properly-black projects and there are perhaps a hundred types in service. Compare that to the thousands of civilian models out there, many of them very odd looking. Things like Rutan's VariEze get rather close to the flying-triangles. And some very unique objects, including random light patterns, also fly in the civilian world. So given the far greater number of civilian aircraft, outside of restricted airspace I'd say that most sightings are probably of strange but non-military flying vehicles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_VariEze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_VariEze http://www.hugeskyadvertising.com/Scrolling-LED-Flying-SIGN.html http://www.hugeskyadvertising.com/Scrolling-LED-Flying-SIGN....

V-2 11y ago

I recall a thought-provoking article about how a lot of UFO "folklor" (abductions, cows etc.) was fabricated at some point by secret service agencies in order to distract the UFO crowd from actually observing the sky. This is one of my favorite twists on conspiracy theories - that they themselves are often a product of conspiracies. Or that they get discreetly, erm what would be the right word, native speakers? Kinda "fed" (by controlled information leaks, for instance) if it serves some purpose.

Shivetya 11y ago

Anecdotal examples of the management of information and personal for this and similar areas. While in the military we had a sergeant transfer in from that area. They were flown to and from the base on transports without windows. While there were a lot of on base persons apparently there were quite a few who rotated out weekly. Later in the 90s working for a rent a guard company we had a special group doing perimeter security. These guards could not so much as bounce a check, get a traffic ticket, or be charged with a crime, without risking their jobs. The idea was that you don't get leverage on people who work in areas where things can be seen. You also tend to have some of the most over the top patriotic types who take pride in keeping the trust All that really circles back to the first part of my comment, the CIA and military had people dedicated to management of the story and the people involved. Legends and myths can be created, you just have to plan it out and act on the plan correctly

LordKano 11y ago

An apparently metallic or luminous object in the sky at any time after the 1940s could possibly be explained away as experimental terrestrial craft but we have reports of such things going back much further in history. It's funny how today many people call them "flying saucers" due to a misunderstanding of Kenneth Arnold's description of the objects that he claims to have seen in 1947 because more than 800 years ago, someone reported seeing what he described as a "flying earthenware vessel" in the sky over Edo(Tokyo) Japan. People have been seeing things in the sky for a very long time. We simply don't know all of them are. Anyone who claims to know with absolute certainty what they are is just speculating. Chances are, that person just wants to sell you their book.

Scarblac 11y ago
But, as some XKCD notes, nowadays all of humanity walks around with great photo cameras all the time and nobody is taking pictures of UFOs with them.
- LordKano 11y ago
  People take a lot of pictures of UFOs. Most of them are eventually identified as mundane.

itslennysfault 11y ago

Here ya go: http://jalopnik.com/5804400/area-51-secrets-the-us-military-used-fake-cardboard-cutouts-of-planes-to-fool-the-russians http://jalopnik.com/5804400/area-51-secrets-the-us-military-... It was the second match when I used the search query: area 51 cold spots russia satellite -alien

cyphar 11y ago

> I'm surprised they're continuing the misdirection so many years later. "Unidentified flying object" means an aircraft, usually a military one (because civilian aircraft are easier to identify). While this is true, it isn't incorrect to call them "unidentified flying objects". All top-secret aircraft projects are by definition unidentified flying objects. It's up to the crackpot bullshit artists to interpret "unidentified" as "confirmed alien".