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One solution would be for the United States, the land of liberty, to give its citizens privacy protections similar to what Europeans enjoy. What does a U.S. ci

One solution would be for the United States, the land of liberty, to give its citizens privacy protections similar to what Europeans enjoy. What does a U.S. citizen gain from not having the option for privacy? You always can forgo it if you like.

marcoperaza 11y ago
No one makes you sign up for Google or Facebook. By using those services, you accept their terms. What the EU is doing is actually taking away your options.
- hackuser 11y ago
  It's not just Google and Facebook (and it may be hard to avoid Facebook in some situations, such as networking for some jobs); it's ISPs, cellular providers, cameras in stores, tracking across the Internet - Google tracks me whether I sign up or not. Unless I lock myself in my basement, with no communication in or out, I can't avoid the infringement on my privacy. What are rights or choices if they apply only in my basement? > What the EU is doing is actually taking away your options. People in the EU still can sign up for Facebook or Google and give private information to them. What options do they lose?
  - marcoperaza 11y ago
    >What options do they lose? What will the EU do against companies that have no legal presence in the EU? The only way for the EU to enforce these kinds of rules is to 1) limit enforcement to companies with EU offices (which just hurts Europe), 2) prohibit individuals from using non-complying web services (Great Wall of Europe? unlikely), or 3) prohibit European businesses from doing business with non-complying services (i.e. make it illegal for Europeans to buy ads on Facebook). Government policy-making isn't making a wishlist. It must be backed by coercion or it is meaningless.
    - hackuser 11y ago
      I don't agree with what you say (Facebook and other large companies operate in the EU and I haven't heard of one avoiding EU law by hiding in the U.S.), but even accepting it I don't see what options EU users lose.
      - marcoperaza 11y ago
        Unless the EU is willing to resort to options 2 or 3 (which very obviously would require limiting the options/rights of Europeans), it will have to accept that is has no control over services with no legal presence in the EU. In proceeding with option 1, it would be creating a strong incentive for companies to find a friendlier jurisdiction, further exacerbating Europe's labor and entrepreneurial malaise. Yes, all of the big tech companies have European offices today, but 1) they're huge corporations that can afford regulatory compliance, and 2) they might not have opened those offices in the current regulatory climate. Access to the European labor market and datacenters, and the ability to have salesmen on the ground, might very well outweigh the costs (and foregone profits) of the EU's proposed data regulations, for some companies. But Europe, already over-burdened with regulations and taxes, as evidenced by stagnant growth and massive youth unemployment, is just digging itself into an ever-deeper hole. There is such thing as death by a thousand cuts.

marcoperaza 11y ago

No one makes you sign up for Google or Facebook. By using those services, you accept their terms. What the EU is doing is actually taking away your options.

hackuser 11y ago
It's not just Google and Facebook (and it may be hard to avoid Facebook in some situations, such as networking for some jobs); it's ISPs, cellular providers, cameras in stores, tracking across the Internet - Google tracks me whether I sign up or not. Unless I lock myself in my basement, with no communication in or out, I can't avoid the infringement on my privacy. What are rights or choices if they apply only in my basement? > What the EU is doing is actually taking away your options. People in the EU still can sign up for Facebook or Google and give private information to them. What options do they lose?
- marcoperaza 11y ago
  >What options do they lose? What will the EU do against companies that have no legal presence in the EU? The only way for the EU to enforce these kinds of rules is to 1) limit enforcement to companies with EU offices (which just hurts Europe), 2) prohibit individuals from using non-complying web services (Great Wall of Europe? unlikely), or 3) prohibit European businesses from doing business with non-complying services (i.e. make it illegal for Europeans to buy ads on Facebook). Government policy-making isn't making a wishlist. It must be backed by coercion or it is meaningless.
  - hackuser 11y ago
    I don't agree with what you say (Facebook and other large companies operate in the EU and I haven't heard of one avoiding EU law by hiding in the U.S.), but even accepting it I don't see what options EU users lose.
    - marcoperaza 11y ago
      Unless the EU is willing to resort to options 2 or 3 (which very obviously would require limiting the options/rights of Europeans), it will have to accept that is has no control over services with no legal presence in the EU. In proceeding with option 1, it would be creating a strong incentive for companies to find a friendlier jurisdiction, further exacerbating Europe's labor and entrepreneurial malaise. Yes, all of the big tech companies have European offices today, but 1) they're huge corporations that can afford regulatory compliance, and 2) they might not have opened those offices in the current regulatory climate. Access to the European labor market and datacenters, and the ability to have salesmen on the ground, might very well outweigh the costs (and foregone profits) of the EU's proposed data regulations, for some companies. But Europe, already over-burdened with regulations and taxes, as evidenced by stagnant growth and massive youth unemployment, is just digging itself into an ever-deeper hole. There is such thing as death by a thousand cuts.