4 ms·

I've been an REI member for longer than I can remember, but I've never voted in one of their elections. Lately though, I've been questioning my loyalty to the

I've been an REI member for longer than I can remember, but I've never voted in one of their elections. Lately though, I've been questioning my loyalty to the brand. Their prices are substantially higher than some of their online competitors with differences that are too big to be accounted for by the dividend alone. And while I appreciate the service when buying something, their new return policy is a big step backwards. They've built tremendous loyalty around a return something any time policy that no longer exists.

ghaff 11y ago
I find most of the stuff I buy from REI is hit or miss whether I can find substantially better deals online. As for the return policy change though, that really surprised me when I heard about it relatively recently. Yeah, there are assholes who abuse this kind of thing but was it really so bad that they had to scrap it? Couldn't they just update their return policy to the effect of "This isn't intended to cover long-term wear and tear. At our discretion, we may reject returns that aren't the result of a defect. Just be reasonable." [EDIT: With often relatively expensive gear that may not be used as much as I would like to use it, I've absolutely had parts break, leaks develop, etc. in things that had only been used maybe 10 times or so over more than a year. Recently, I returned for repair something to the manufacturer--which they fixed--because it was under their warranty but not REI's new one.]
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  REI began to worry it was getting a reputation as a sucker. Customers started giving it nicknames like "Rental Equipment Inc." "Rent Every Item" was another. Some called it "Return Every Item." Two years ago, REI noticed that the number of people returning really old stuff was increasing. Some customers talked about their returns on social media, which led to even more people bringing in their old junk to get refunds. It was hurting profits. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/09/25/223787129/what-happens-when-a-store-lets-customers-return-whatever-they-want http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/09/25/223787129/what-... As for discretion, they don't talk about that in this article, but it's hard to be non-judgemental about returns yet also exercise discretion. In REI's (and also L.L.Bean's) case, non-judgemental seems clearly part of why the policy was so treasured.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    It's just too bad. Maintaining these sort of policies effectively requires that most people follow some sort of social contract. If too many people make it about "me me me," well, you can't have nice things.
  - massysett 11y ago
    They could have fixed this problem with lifetime exchanges. My dad had an ancient Sears Craftsman ratcheting screwdriver. It would turn when you pressed the handle, and bits stored inside the handle. It broke. He took it back. They didn't even make anything exactly like it anymore but he walked out with the closest thing they had, no charge. Guaranteed forever. To this day if I think of quality hand tools I think Sears Craftsman. But they don't give refunds for tools. They replace them. REI could offer lifetime exchanges. Strap break? Seam rip? Bring it in for replacement. They don't offer that. This "solution" is not narrowly tailored to the stated problem of abuse so I doubt this policy change was really a response to abuse.
    - rconti 11y ago
      Craftsman tools are total crap these days, but you're right about how it used to be, and this is a good way of doing things.
moron4hire 11y ago
Came here to say the same thing. We bought a very expensive tent from them for very protection and they rescinded it only a few months before the tent got bent up in a wind storm. They tent itself was nice, but it wasn't really worth the price. I understood it as a form of insurance. So yeah, I'm definitely letting my membership lapse this year.
- forrestthewoods 11y ago
  Lapse? It's $20 for a lifetime membership.
- snowwrestler 11y ago
  If you have a legitimate gripe, take it back. REI store managers (still) have a broad discretion in the return policy. The new "1 year" policy is largely a social signal that they won't tolerate obvious abuses anymore. And expensive tent getting wrecked by wind is not an obvious abuse, unless you strapped it to a car on the highway maybe. And many high end outdoor manufacturers provide lifetime warranties themselves. If your expensive tent is a North Face or Mountain Hardware and was really damaged by wind, it will probably get replaced no matter where you bought it.
marincounty 11y ago
I don't know the the number of customers who abused the return policy, but I have a feeling a strict return policy it's counter productive? I don't know if REI, or even Costco realized just how much crap we bought from them that was only bought, because in the back of, at least my mind; I thought I would use the item. Of course, I never used the impulse purchase, but bought it. Now--I only buy the essentials. (By the way, all those high end watches at Costco are not covered by any manufacture's warranty. Costco has someone, somewhere that services the watches. I bought a watch there, and found this out later. I will return the watch if it ever fails--just on principle. It's still keeping perfect time a decade later. Gotta love Omega Seamasters. Actually, all high end watches are not bought, they are rented. It breaks--you need to send it back to the factory. They all stopped selling parts to 3rd party watch repairers.) These stores must have done studies on consumer buying habits? I'm just assuming they are making more profits with strict return policies?

ghaff 11y ago

I find most of the stuff I buy from REI is hit or miss whether I can find substantially better deals online. As for the return policy change though, that really surprised me when I heard about it relatively recently. Yeah, there are assholes who abuse this kind of thing but was it really so bad that they had to scrap it? Couldn't they just update their return policy to the effect of "This isn't intended to cover long-term wear and tear. At our discretion, we may reject returns that aren't the result of a defect. Just be reasonable." [EDIT: With often relatively expensive gear that may not be used as much as I would like to use it, I've absolutely had parts break, leaks develop, etc. in things that had only been used maybe 10 times or so over more than a year. Recently, I returned for repair something to the manufacturer--which they fixed--because it was under their warranty but not REI's new one.]

sliverstorm 11y ago
REI began to worry it was getting a reputation as a sucker. Customers started giving it nicknames like "Rental Equipment Inc." "Rent Every Item" was another. Some called it "Return Every Item." Two years ago, REI noticed that the number of people returning really old stuff was increasing. Some customers talked about their returns on social media, which led to even more people bringing in their old junk to get refunds. It was hurting profits. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/09/25/223787129/what-happens-when-a-store-lets-customers-return-whatever-they-want http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/09/25/223787129/what-... As for discretion, they don't talk about that in this article, but it's hard to be non-judgemental about returns yet also exercise discretion. In REI's (and also L.L.Bean's) case, non-judgemental seems clearly part of why the policy was so treasured.
- ghaff 11y ago
  It's just too bad. Maintaining these sort of policies effectively requires that most people follow some sort of social contract. If too many people make it about "me me me," well, you can't have nice things.
- massysett 11y ago
  They could have fixed this problem with lifetime exchanges. My dad had an ancient Sears Craftsman ratcheting screwdriver. It would turn when you pressed the handle, and bits stored inside the handle. It broke. He took it back. They didn't even make anything exactly like it anymore but he walked out with the closest thing they had, no charge. Guaranteed forever. To this day if I think of quality hand tools I think Sears Craftsman. But they don't give refunds for tools. They replace them. REI could offer lifetime exchanges. Strap break? Seam rip? Bring it in for replacement. They don't offer that. This "solution" is not narrowly tailored to the stated problem of abuse so I doubt this policy change was really a response to abuse.
  - rconti 11y ago
    Craftsman tools are total crap these days, but you're right about how it used to be, and this is a good way of doing things.

moron4hire 11y ago

Came here to say the same thing. We bought a very expensive tent from them for very protection and they rescinded it only a few months before the tent got bent up in a wind storm. They tent itself was nice, but it wasn't really worth the price. I understood it as a form of insurance. So yeah, I'm definitely letting my membership lapse this year.

forrestthewoods 11y ago
Lapse? It's $20 for a lifetime membership.
snowwrestler 11y ago
If you have a legitimate gripe, take it back. REI store managers (still) have a broad discretion in the return policy. The new "1 year" policy is largely a social signal that they won't tolerate obvious abuses anymore. And expensive tent getting wrecked by wind is not an obvious abuse, unless you strapped it to a car on the highway maybe. And many high end outdoor manufacturers provide lifetime warranties themselves. If your expensive tent is a North Face or Mountain Hardware and was really damaged by wind, it will probably get replaced no matter where you bought it.

marincounty 11y ago

I don't know the the number of customers who abused the return policy, but I have a feeling a strict return policy it's counter productive? I don't know if REI, or even Costco realized just how much crap we bought from them that was only bought, because in the back of, at least my mind; I thought I would use the item. Of course, I never used the impulse purchase, but bought it. Now--I only buy the essentials. (By the way, all those high end watches at Costco are not covered by any manufacture's warranty. Costco has someone, somewhere that services the watches. I bought a watch there, and found this out later. I will return the watch if it ever fails--just on principle. It's still keeping perfect time a decade later. Gotta love Omega Seamasters. Actually, all high end watches are not bought, they are rented. It breaks--you need to send it back to the factory. They all stopped selling parts to 3rd party watch repairers.) These stores must have done studies on consumer buying habits? I'm just assuming they are making more profits with strict return policies?