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Microsoft releases CNTK, its open source deep learning toolkit, on GitHub
- baq 11y agoquoted performance numbers on multiple GPUs leave other frameworks in the dust. where's the catch?
- pussinboots 11y agolooks like it isn't very scriptable so far, with the config files being made manually until "future releases" http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dongyu/CNTK-Tutorial-NIPS2015.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dongyu/CNTK-Tu...
- tacos 11y ago"You can also use Brain Script (beta) to specify the configuration or use Python and C# (in future releases) to directly instantiate related objects."
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- binarymax 11y agoYes it looks like they have architected for low communication overhead and true parallelization when you have multiple GPUs. 1:4 gives 1:2 on Torch and Caffe, and 1:4 = 1:4 on CNTK. No idea what the catch is :)
- magicmu 11y agoI was thinking the same thing, it almost looks a little too good to be true -- although it does kinda make sense given the focus on GPU-based clusters. I wonder how this compares to Baidu's warp-ctc [1]. They don't really seem to be the same thing, and maybe I'm missing something since I'm just starting to get into ML, but it seems to be conspicuously absent from this writeup. [1] https://github.com/baidu-research/warp-ctc https://github.com/baidu-research/warp-ctc
- varelse 11y ago1-bit SGD and insanely high minibatch sizes (8192) it would appear: which drastically reduces communication costs, making data-parallel computation scale. If so, while very cool, that's not a general solution. Scaling batch sizes of 256 or lower would be the breakthrough. I suspect they get away with this because speech recognition has very sparse output targets (words/phonemes). Too bad the code below isn't open-source because they got g2 instances with ~2.5 Gb/s interconnect to scale: http://www.nikkostrom.com/publications/interspeech2015/strom_interspeech2015.pdf http://www.nikkostrom.com/publications/interspeech2015/strom...
- mjw 11y agoYep. To elaborate: really big batch sizes can speed up training data throughput, but usually mean that less is learned from each example seen, so time-to-convergence might not necessarily improve (might even increase, if you take things too far). Training data throughput isn't the right metric to compare -- look at time to convergence, or e.g. time to some target accuracy level on held-out data.
- mjw 11y agoWarp-CTC implements one specific model (or at least, one specific loss function), it's not really a general framework in the same way as the other libraries mentioned.
- sharms 11y agoThis is great news - I was looking at Tensorflow the other day, but on Windows / OSX it doesn't take advantage of my GPUs. For my desktop I was stuck as my new 3440x1440 monitor doesn't, for the time being, work with Xorg's intel driver. Hopefully this is a viable alternative, I would love to see a online course in machine learning leveraging this. I found http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dongyu/CNTK-Tutorial-NIPS2015.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dongyu/CNTK-Tu... on the homepage which looks well put together to start off
- hpenedones 11y agoApparently there is also a CNTK book available in pdf (~150 pages) at: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/226641/CNTKBook-20160121.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/226641/CNTKBook-20160121....
- kajecounterhack 11y agoWhat gfx card are you using? If nvidia, you should install nvidia's proprietary drivers for linux -- it would be very surprising to me if they didn't support your monitor's resolution.
- nickysielicki 11y ago> For my desktop I was stuck as my new 3440x1440 monitor doesn't, for the time being, work with Xorg's intel driver. I think this is now fixed upstream https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1494095 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1494095
- csvan 11y agoFirst TensorFlow, then Baidu's Warp-CTC, and now Microsofts CNTK. It is a very, very exciting time for open source machine learning indeed.
- dufalop 11y agoDefinitely ! I'm looking forward to a review of the major systems available by someone who has a clue (i.e. not me). The investment to learn one of these is great enough that it will be worth some time invested to understand what each can do.
- varelse 11y agoExcept that it appears to require MKL or ACML... Sigh... ./configure Defaulting to --with-buildtype=release Cannot find a CPU math library. Please specify --with-acml or --with-mkl with a path.
- pmelendez 11y agoAt least ACML seems to be open source now too. "ACML End of Life Notice: We have transitioned our math libraries from a proprietary, closed source codebase (ACML) to open source solutions"[1] [1] http://developer.amd.com/tools-and-sdks/archive/amd-core-math-library-acml/acml-downloads-resources/ http://developer.amd.com/tools-and-sdks/archive/amd-core-mat...
- snoman 11y agoAnd, if I recall, MKL is included in Microsoft R Open (previously, Revolution R Open). At least, that's what the instructions here[1] lead me to believe. [1] https://mran.revolutionanalytics.com/documents/rro/installation/ https://mran.revolutionanalytics.com/documents/rro/installat...
- boz_msft 11y agoMicrosoft employee here. MKL libraries and headers will show up in CNTK soon. We are working with Intel on this.
- randy324 11y agofuck you microsoft
- tianlins 11y agoThey claimed to be "the only public toolkit that can scale beyond single machine". Well, mxnet (https://github.com/dmlc/mxnet https://github.com/dmlc/mxnet) can scale across multiple CPUs and GPUs.
- santoshalper 11y agoMultiple machines implies scaling across a network or backbone - multiple logical computers. As I understand it at least.
- dgacmu 11y agoMxnet does. The commenter just left that part out. "The library is portable and lightweight, and is ready scales to multiple GPUs, and multiple machines." https://mxnet.readthedocs.org/en/latest/distributed_training.html https://mxnet.readthedocs.org/en/latest/distributed_training...
- doczoidberg 11y agoIs this used on Azure Machine Learning? Do they use GPU based machines for it on Azure?
- shtangun 11y agoProject Philly is a Deep Learning platform that is underdevelopment in Microsoft
- doczoidberg 11y agocan you share more?
- shtangun 11y agoProject Philly is supposed to be a GPU platform in Azure that will enable us to run 100's of GPUs. Primary focus is Deep Learning and will be using Nvidia GPUs. CNTK, I think will be the default way to harness the Computing power. I think that is all that has been revealed. I suspect that this will be announced within a couple of months and this cntk release has something to do with that
- dionys 11y agoI do not think they do yet. There are some plans for GPU based VMs on Azure though
- shtangun 11y agoHow many Deep Learning frameworks now? I think DL frameworks are coming up like JavaScript frameworks
- matsiyatzy 11y agoHere's a (currently incomplete) list of Deep Learning frameworks : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XvGfi3TxWm7kuQ0DUqYrO6cxva196UJDxKTxccFqb9U/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XvGfi3TxWm7kuQ0DUqYr... There are many :)
- aristus 11y agoMissing Vowpal Wabbit: http://hunch.net/~vw/ http://hunch.net/~vw/
- charlescearl 11y agoI'm not sure if it's a deep learning framework. Perhaps they are in some ways complementary http://hunch.net/?p=2875548 http://hunch.net/?p=2875548. Who knows, maybe CNTK is one big reduction.
- cs702 11y agoI'm a bit surprised they decided on a CAFFE-like declarative language for specifying neural net architectures[1], instead of offering high-level software components that enable easy composition right from within a scripting language, e.g., like Python in TensorFlow's case.[2] Is there anyone from the Microsoft team here that can explain this decision? -- [1] See examples on https://github.com/Microsoft/CNTK/wiki/CNTK-usage-overview https://github.com/Microsoft/CNTK/wiki/CNTK-usage-overview [2] See examples on https://www.tensorflow.org/versions/0.6.0/get_started/index.html https://www.tensorflow.org/versions/0.6.0/get_started/index....
- singularity2001 11y agoAccording to their slides[1] it is planned: Quoth: "Models can be described and modified with • C++ code • Network definition language (NDL) and model editing language (MEL) • Brain Script (beta) • Python and C# (planned) " [1]http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dongyu/CNTK-Tutorial-NIPS2015.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dongyu/CNTK-Tu... thanks to @sharms
- boz_msft 11y agoHi MSFT employee here. Yes. High-level bindings are planned and are a high priority. We will document the planned interfaces on GitHub soon.
- canberroid 11y agoThanks for letting us know. Any hand-wavy non-committal indication of how long that might be? Weeks/month, two months/more than three months?
- KirinDave 11y agoLet's hope they decide to target F#.
- pmalynin 11y ago
- mzahir 11y agoAn evaluation of the open source ML options - https://github.com/zer0n/deepframeworks https://github.com/zer0n/deepframeworks
- x-sam 11y agoOnly Microsoft can open source documentation on github in docx https://github.com/Microsoft/CNTK/tree/master/Documentation/Documents https://github.com/Microsoft/CNTK/tree/master/Documentation/...
- cr4zy 11y agoLooks like they're moving it to GitHub wiki: https://github.com/Microsoft/CNTK/wiki/Config-file-overview https://github.com/Microsoft/CNTK/wiki/Config-file-overview
- ciupicri 11y agoNevertheless isn't docx an ECMA and ISO standard? [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML
- blazespin 11y agoCan't wait for sousmith's take https://github.com/soumith/convnet-benchmarks/issues https://github.com/soumith/convnet-benchmarks/issues
- FLF_HOY 11y ago"...Worry about scaling; worry about vectorization; worry about data locality...." http://www.hpcwire.com/2016/01/21/conversation-james-reinders/ http://www.hpcwire.com/2016/01/21/conversation-james-reinder... http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/events-2/presentation-files-icri-ci-retreat-5-6-may-2015/ http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/events-2/presentation-files-ic... http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/files/2015/05/00-Boris-Ginzburg-1505051.pdf http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/files/2015/05/00-Boris-Ginzbur... Nvidia Chief Scientist for Deep Learning was poached from Intel ICRI-CI Group https://il.linkedin.com/in/boris-ginsburg-2249545?trk=pub-pbmap https://il.linkedin.com/in/boris-ginsburg-2249545?trk=pub-pb... http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~wolf/deeplearningmeeting/speaker.html http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~wolf/deeplearningmeeting/speaker.ht... Look for quote: "...In a very interesting admission, LeCun told The Next Platform ..." http://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/25/a-glimpse-into-the-future-of-deep-learning-hardware/ http://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/25/a-glimpse-into-the-fu... Yann LeCun states on Nov 2015 (29:00 min mark) GPU's short lived in Deep Learning / CNN / NN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7TUU94ir38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7TUU94ir38 https://www.altera.com/en_US/pdfs/literature/solution-sheets/efficient_neural_networks.pdf https://www.altera.com/en_US/pdfs/literature/solution-sheets...
- FLF_HOY 11y agohttps://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2013/avx-512-instructions https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2013/avx-512-instruct... "...Worry about scaling; worry about vectorization; worry about data locality...." http://www.hpcwire.com/2016/01/21/conversation-james-reinder.. http://www.hpcwire.com/2016/01/21/conversation-james-reinder.... http://www.hpcwire.com/2016/01/21/conversation-james-reinders/ http://www.hpcwire.com/2016/01/21/conversation-james-reinder... Nvidia Chief Scientist for Deep Learning was poached from Intel https://il.linkedin.com/in/boris-ginsburg-2249545?trk=pub-pbmap https://il.linkedin.com/in/boris-ginsburg-2249545?trk=pub-pb... http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~wolf/deeplearningmeeting/speaker.html http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~wolf/deeplearningmeeting/speaker.ht... AVX-512 instructions https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2013/avx-512-instructions https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2013/avx-512-instruct... Look for quote: "...In a very interesting admission, LeCun told The Next Platform ..." http://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/25/a-glimpse-into-the-future-of-deep-learning-hardware/ http://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/25/a-glimpse-into-the-fu... Yann LeCun states on Nov 2015 (29:00 min mark) GPU's short lived in Deep Learning / CNN / NN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7TUU94ir38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7TUU94ir38 https://www.altera.com/en_US/pdfs/literature/solution-sheets/efficient_neural_networks.pdf https://www.altera.com/en_US/pdfs/literature/solution-sheets... http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/events-2/presentation-files-icri-ci-retreat-5-6-may-2015/ http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/events-2/presentation-files-ic... http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/files/2015/05/00-Boris-Ginzburg-1505051.pdf http://icri-ci.technion.ac.il/files/2015/05/00-Boris-Ginzbur...