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I am all for tidying up. One should not forget though, that there are many reasons for why things end up the way they do (as in, cluttered and untidy). I don't

by justusw 11y ago

I am all for tidying up. One should not forget though, that there are many reasons for why things end up the way they do (as in, cluttered and untidy). I don't think that it 'just happens' that your house fills itself with things that you never will use. Sure, we can blame consumer culture and capitalistic indoctrination. But if we're honest, most of the stuff that we buy is because we hope that it will change us as a person and that we can fill that emptiness that lingers inside. In the end, buying will not change lives as much as we think. Change has to come from within and from connecting with others. I really doubt that "300,000 things" will achieve that change. I think the authors of http://www.theminimalists.com http://www.theminimalists.com have some great answers regarding the question "if not consumerism, what will add value to my life?". While most of you already know the answer "friends, health, passion, etc.", and are tired of the platitudes, I am sure that it is easy to forget the values in a world surrounded by messages of consumption. If you are interested, I would recommend starting with this article http://www.theminimalists.com/21days/ http://www.theminimalists.com/21days/ about how the authors Joshua Fields Millburn & Ryan Nicodemus got started on their journey to minimalism.

koralatov 11y ago
I don't think anyone is suggesting that a home filling up with things `just happens' --- most people will readily admit that they have bought or received those things, and that those things are there because of their own action (acquisition or receipt) or inaction (unwillingness/inability to dispose of items). I also take issue with the implicit suggestion in your comment that most people genuinely think that consumerism will add value to their lives; I see that attitude a lot in `minimalist' blogs and discussions, and I realise that they're selling a narrative and a lifestyle, but it's very condescending. People end up buying things to try and facilitate change or to bring happiness often because they don't know of any other method, or because other avenues have failed them, or they don't have access to them in the first place. When asked, most people will admit that a new gadget or purse or pair of shoes or a second helping of cake will bring them some kind of joy, perhaps fleeting, but will also admit that family and health and following their passions are more worthwhile goals. It's not either/or dichotomy that it's so often set out to be by `minimalists'. In my own experience, I know and work with people for whom many of these things are impossible to follow for whatever reason. Some have abusive families and still deal with the fallout of that. Many have passions but simply don't have the money to follow them as much as they'd like, or at all. Some people have chronic health issues which they cannot overcome. I'm certainly not going to harangue them or judge them for buying another DVD, or another book, or another pair of cheap trainers because they can't follow more `worthwhile' paths. Inversely, I've come across a lot of `minimalists' --- mostly online, but some in real life --- who fetishise their lack of possessions the same way many collectors fetishise their collections. Minimalism-as-less-stuff is just as informed by consumerism as maximalism-as-happiness is; it's simply the opposite side of the same coin.
- justusw 11y ago
  Somehow, I am surprised that my comment seems to raise so many issues for you. That was not my intention. Like you, I don't view minimalism as this 'you're either a consumer or a minimalist' dichotomy that you perceive it to be. In the end it is just another tool in the toolbox. A tool that just happens to work for a lot of people that I personally know. Consumption adds a lot of value to my life. Buying a washing machine buys me time which I can invest in other things I care about.
- the_af 11y ago
  In addition to what you say, there's nothing wrong with collecting things you're passionate about. Sure, value your relationships with family and friends, love the great outdoors if you must, but there's nothing wrong with also valuing your hobbies even if they involve collecting stuff. Disclaimer: I am extremely untidy and also collect scale models and miniatures. My house is a mess, but that's a personality flaw (my kitchen is also very untidy, and that has to do with being a slob, not with the number of things I have in it). Of course, none of my stuff is "essential", but life is made up of nonessential things too. I understand the criticism of mindless consumerism (for example, I couldn't be less interested in having the latest gadget, smartphone, etc, and I don't understand the people who are), but I really don't get the fetishism about not owning stuff.
m0nty 11y ago
> we can fill that emptiness that lingers inside That's quite the generalisation, right there. One thing I learned a long time ago is to (try) not to assume the inside of everyone else's head is the same as mine. We're all wired differently, sometimes slightly and sometimes profoundly.

by justusw 11y ago

koralatov 11y ago

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a home filling up with things `just happens' --- most people will readily admit that they have bought or received those things, and that those things are there because of their own action (acquisition or receipt) or inaction (unwillingness/inability to dispose of items). I also take issue with the implicit suggestion in your comment that most people genuinely think that consumerism will add value to their lives; I see that attitude a lot in `minimalist' blogs and discussions, and I realise that they're selling a narrative and a lifestyle, but it's very condescending. People end up buying things to try and facilitate change or to bring happiness often because they don't know of any other method, or because other avenues have failed them, or they don't have access to them in the first place. When asked, most people will admit that a new gadget or purse or pair of shoes or a second helping of cake will bring them some kind of joy, perhaps fleeting, but will also admit that family and health and following their passions are more worthwhile goals. It's not either/or dichotomy that it's so often set out to be by `minimalists'. In my own experience, I know and work with people for whom many of these things are impossible to follow for whatever reason. Some have abusive families and still deal with the fallout of that. Many have passions but simply don't have the money to follow them as much as they'd like, or at all. Some people have chronic health issues which they cannot overcome. I'm certainly not going to harangue them or judge them for buying another DVD, or another book, or another pair of cheap trainers because they can't follow more `worthwhile' paths. Inversely, I've come across a lot of `minimalists' --- mostly online, but some in real life --- who fetishise their lack of possessions the same way many collectors fetishise their collections. Minimalism-as-less-stuff is just as informed by consumerism as maximalism-as-happiness is; it's simply the opposite side of the same coin.

justusw 11y ago
Somehow, I am surprised that my comment seems to raise so many issues for you. That was not my intention. Like you, I don't view minimalism as this 'you're either a consumer or a minimalist' dichotomy that you perceive it to be. In the end it is just another tool in the toolbox. A tool that just happens to work for a lot of people that I personally know. Consumption adds a lot of value to my life. Buying a washing machine buys me time which I can invest in other things I care about.
the_af 11y ago
In addition to what you say, there's nothing wrong with collecting things you're passionate about. Sure, value your relationships with family and friends, love the great outdoors if you must, but there's nothing wrong with also valuing your hobbies even if they involve collecting stuff. Disclaimer: I am extremely untidy and also collect scale models and miniatures. My house is a mess, but that's a personality flaw (my kitchen is also very untidy, and that has to do with being a slob, not with the number of things I have in it). Of course, none of my stuff is "essential", but life is made up of nonessential things too. I understand the criticism of mindless consumerism (for example, I couldn't be less interested in having the latest gadget, smartphone, etc, and I don't understand the people who are), but I really don't get the fetishism about not owning stuff.

m0nty 11y ago

> we can fill that emptiness that lingers inside That's quite the generalisation, right there. One thing I learned a long time ago is to (try) not to assume the inside of everyone else's head is the same as mine. We're all wired differently, sometimes slightly and sometimes profoundly.