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> (Einstein's) “miracle year” (...) occurred after he had emigrated from Germany to Switzerland. Does the author even know (or does he just want to hide) that

by acqq 11y ago

> (Einstein's) “miracle year” (...) occurred after he had emigrated from Germany to Switzerland. Does the author even know (or does he just want to hide) that Zurich is in a German-speaking part of Switzerland, and that Einstein surely didn't feel like an "immigrant" there? Isn't it annoying reading how Einstein is used by a lot of writers as an attempt to prove any claim they make? The claim that Freud's "immigrated" is equally absurd. Wikipedia has the name and the location of the place where he was born: "Freiberg in Mähren, Moravia, Austrian Empire." (Now it is in Czech Republic and called Příbor, but it's still the same place). He just grew up some 200 miles southwest from his birthplace, right in the capital of the Empire. His father actually brought him and the family to Vienna as Freud was only 4. He certainly never remembered any other place and went to all schools in Vienna.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
david-given 11y ago
> Does the author even know that Zurich is in a German-speaking part of Switzerland, and that Einstein surely didn't feel like an "immigrant" there? That's not precisely true. Zurich speaks German, true, but it's Schweizerdeutsch --- it's a quite different dialect to the Hochdeutsch they speak in Germany. I live in Zurich; a German-born work colleague is actually taking formal lessons in it so he can understand what the locals say. It's that different. Everyone here speaks Hochdeutsch too, or at least does now, so Einstein would probably have gotten along fine, but he most likely wouldn't be feeling like he was at home.
- acqq 11y ago
  > That's not precisely true (...) Everyone here speaks Hochdeutsch too Linguistically, Swiss speak Hochdeutsch even when they speak Swiss German(!) Which a lot of Germans of Germany don't when they speak their dialect. So your argument is quite wrong and certainly not "precise." The German speaking people all have local dialects and have to adapt when they move. But these are all "just" dialects. Ask Germans, they aren't surprised when they have to get accustomed. Look at the map here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_dialects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_dialects Note that all "upper" German regions are actually where "Hochdeutsch" (Upper German) comes from. Yes, "up" is on the South, down on the map. And the area includes Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German "Swiss German (German: Schweizerdeutsch, Alemannic German: Schwyzerdütsch, Schwiizertüütsch, Schwizertitsch[note 1]) refers to any of the Alemannic dialects spoken in Switzerland and in some Alpine communities in Northern Italy." OK, let's check Alemannic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German "Alemannic is a group of dialects of the Upper German branch of the Germanic language family." Finally, it follows that Swiss German dialects are actually all branches of "Hochdeutsch" family(!) They are just not the same as today's "standard German." Which is what people you communicate to probably mean when they say "Hochdeutsch": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German See also DominikR's post here. He being an Austrian, his dialect also from the same "Hochdeutsch" family of dialects, wouldn't feel as an "immigrant" in Switzerland.
- DominikR 11y ago
  > but he most likely wouldn't be feeling like he was at home. I'm an Austrian and yes, the German variant in Switzerland is different but I would never consider Switzerland as a country or culture where I could possibly feel estranged. It's not like you moved as a German to the Ottoman Empire, everybody can understand you if he/she wants to, the landscape and weather is similar (at least for Austrians), the culture is very similar and so is the food, sports (Skiing) and everything else.
  - datalist 11y ago
    What you said, plus non-native speakers often strongly exaggerated the difference between the Swiss dialect and German German (which people usually refered to as High German). Yes, it is a strong dialect, but still a dialect. Tyrol, Styria, Salzburg, Bavaria - heck, even some parts in Germany (despite their tendencies to eradicate dialects) - have equally strong dialects
    - acqq 11y ago
      > even some parts in Germany My favorite joke video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJaXEYkKUuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJaXEYkKUuo "70 million people in Germany don't speak Plattdeutsch" (Low German, which is on the North! More details in my other posts here). Here the bank robber doesn't, don't ask me which dialect is his. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German I wish some native speaker would transcribe these joke videos for us who aren't.

by acqq 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

david-given 11y ago

> Does the author even know that Zurich is in a German-speaking part of Switzerland, and that Einstein surely didn't feel like an "immigrant" there? That's not precisely true. Zurich speaks German, true, but it's Schweizerdeutsch --- it's a quite different dialect to the Hochdeutsch they speak in Germany. I live in Zurich; a German-born work colleague is actually taking formal lessons in it so he can understand what the locals say. It's that different. Everyone here speaks Hochdeutsch too, or at least does now, so Einstein would probably have gotten along fine, but he most likely wouldn't be feeling like he was at home.

acqq 11y ago
> That's not precisely true (...) Everyone here speaks Hochdeutsch too Linguistically, Swiss speak Hochdeutsch even when they speak Swiss German(!) Which a lot of Germans of Germany don't when they speak their dialect. So your argument is quite wrong and certainly not "precise." The German speaking people all have local dialects and have to adapt when they move. But these are all "just" dialects. Ask Germans, they aren't surprised when they have to get accustomed. Look at the map here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_dialects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_dialects Note that all "upper" German regions are actually where "Hochdeutsch" (Upper German) comes from. Yes, "up" is on the South, down on the map. And the area includes Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German "Swiss German (German: Schweizerdeutsch, Alemannic German: Schwyzerdütsch, Schwiizertüütsch, Schwizertitsch[note 1]) refers to any of the Alemannic dialects spoken in Switzerland and in some Alpine communities in Northern Italy." OK, let's check Alemannic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German "Alemannic is a group of dialects of the Upper German branch of the Germanic language family." Finally, it follows that Swiss German dialects are actually all branches of "Hochdeutsch" family(!) They are just not the same as today's "standard German." Which is what people you communicate to probably mean when they say "Hochdeutsch": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German See also DominikR's post here. He being an Austrian, his dialect also from the same "Hochdeutsch" family of dialects, wouldn't feel as an "immigrant" in Switzerland.
DominikR 11y ago
> but he most likely wouldn't be feeling like he was at home. I'm an Austrian and yes, the German variant in Switzerland is different but I would never consider Switzerland as a country or culture where I could possibly feel estranged. It's not like you moved as a German to the Ottoman Empire, everybody can understand you if he/she wants to, the landscape and weather is similar (at least for Austrians), the culture is very similar and so is the food, sports (Skiing) and everything else.
- datalist 11y ago
  What you said, plus non-native speakers often strongly exaggerated the difference between the Swiss dialect and German German (which people usually refered to as High German). Yes, it is a strong dialect, but still a dialect. Tyrol, Styria, Salzburg, Bavaria - heck, even some parts in Germany (despite their tendencies to eradicate dialects) - have equally strong dialects
  - acqq 11y ago
    > even some parts in Germany My favorite joke video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJaXEYkKUuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJaXEYkKUuo "70 million people in Germany don't speak Plattdeutsch" (Low German, which is on the North! More details in my other posts here). Here the bank robber doesn't, don't ask me which dialect is his. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German I wish some native speaker would transcribe these joke videos for us who aren't.