6 ms·

Why is a business checking account so difficult? Seems like "I have $1000 (or 10k) to place in my shiny new account" would be enough to mollify them?

by arohner 11y ago

patio11 11y ago
It's largely to prevent fraud and money laundering. A significant feature of Japanese bank accounts is money can move between them essentially instantaneously and Japan is a very cash-based society. What banks do not want to happen is for someone to take a cookie-cutter LLC, do an ore-ore fraud (i.e. call up a bunch of Japanese senior citizens and get them to insta-wire their life savings to the new account), immediately convert it into cash ("I need $200k for payroll in $100 bills" is something that is not crazy in Japan -- getting rarer but not crazy), and vanish into the ether. [+] It does not help matters that a large Tokyo startup was a) a money laundering operation for b) a large international drug network then c) experienced more than half a billion dollars in suspected embezzlement while d) the banking system was caught with it's collective pants down. This current puts a giant blinking Give This Application All Possible Scrutiny on anyone who says "tech company" and "international wire transfer", which is really %#(&)0$ing annoying when you're a tech company which needs to get and make international wire transfers and does not have $100 million of business lying around to justify the bank doing fairly costly due diligence work. [+] Edited to add: You might not think this sounds like a very plausible fraud, since it requires a corporate officer to make a personal appearance at the bank branch and produce identification, but the corporate officer might be a victim of the scam, too. A "local businessman" who "already owns another corporation so I can't be director of this new venture" approaches them about a great new job as company director, no experience required, the lawyers will take care of everything. The lawyers ("lawyers") draft paperwork and the director stamps everything. On the first day of work the lawyer says "Great. OK, it's the 25th. First order of business: get $200k out of the account at the bank for payroll to the employees at the $FOO branch office. Also, print out a receipt for your own salary; here's the form. We'll meet you at the train station and walk you to the office." At the train station the lawyer looks at the form, notices a misprint, and says "Oh sorry, this is wrong. We don't want to make you look bad on the first day. Tell you what, I'll phone ahead to the company to let them know we're going to be a bit delayed. Wait here, I'll pop back to the office, print the form correctly this time, and we'll go in together then. That's the envelope? Great; give it to me and I'll put it in the safe; wouldn't want someone stealing it at the train station. Society is going to the dogs, you know?" Later that month, when asked by the police officers, the corporate officer can produce an impressive collection of meaningless powerpoint slides, business cards listing fake names of fake lawyers tied to phones stolen/registered with stolen credit cards/etc, and a total lack of understanding of what went wrong.
captaindiego 11y ago
Even getting a basic credit card in Japan as a foreigner can be a real pain. If you work for a big company and can get some oomph behind your application you're fine. But if you're a foreign student you're probably going to have trouble.
- kagamine 11y ago
  From numerous YT videos of well-established foreigners in Japan I understand that just moving house and being accepted for a rental contract is very difficult. Often foreigners are asked to pay higher deposits even though their income is from Japan and have lived there for years, and have rented without problem elsewhere. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odahzHioQQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odahzHioQQ4
  - captaindiego 11y ago
    Yup that is spot on. My company wouldn't act as a guarantor for me so the only way to get a rental contract was to pay an additional $800 (and $100 per year after) for a special company to act as my guarantor. This is with a good salary and pay stubs to match. Don't even get me started on the rental company that takes a 1 month rent cut... or 2-3 months rent for "key money"... or ...
    - rangibaby 11y ago
      I would advise staying away from large rental companies because they charge a lot to do a little, but I believe key and gratitude money are set by the landlord. 1 month rent is the rental company's "finder fee", which is standard. It's all the other fees they sting you with that really hurt. I ended up paying about and extra month of rent per year for dumb shit that they decided to charge me for. And you had better make sure your apartment is better-than-spotless when you move out. Japanese law says that you don't have to pay for damage or wear and tear caused through everyday living, but they'll still try to keep your deposit or charge you for repairs.

Why is a business checking account so difficult? Seems like "I have $1000 (or 10k) to place in my shiny new account" would be enough to mollify them?

by arohner 11y ago

Why is a business checking account so difficult? Seems like "I have $1000 (or 10k) to place in my shiny new account" would be enough to mollify them?

patio11 11y ago

It's largely to prevent fraud and money laundering. A significant feature of Japanese bank accounts is money can move between them essentially instantaneously and Japan is a very cash-based society. What banks do not want to happen is for someone to take a cookie-cutter LLC, do an ore-ore fraud (i.e. call up a bunch of Japanese senior citizens and get them to insta-wire their life savings to the new account), immediately convert it into cash ("I need $200k for payroll in $100 bills" is something that is not crazy in Japan -- getting rarer but not crazy), and vanish into the ether. [+] It does not help matters that a large Tokyo startup was a) a money laundering operation for b) a large international drug network then c) experienced more than half a billion dollars in suspected embezzlement while d) the banking system was caught with it's collective pants down. This current puts a giant blinking Give This Application All Possible Scrutiny on anyone who says "tech company" and "international wire transfer", which is really %#(&)0$ing annoying when you're a tech company which needs to get and make international wire transfers and does not have $100 million of business lying around to justify the bank doing fairly costly due diligence work. [+] Edited to add: You might not think this sounds like a very plausible fraud, since it requires a corporate officer to make a personal appearance at the bank branch and produce identification, but the corporate officer might be a victim of the scam, too. A "local businessman" who "already owns another corporation so I can't be director of this new venture" approaches them about a great new job as company director, no experience required, the lawyers will take care of everything. The lawyers ("lawyers") draft paperwork and the director stamps everything. On the first day of work the lawyer says "Great. OK, it's the 25th. First order of business: get $200k out of the account at the bank for payroll to the employees at the $FOO branch office. Also, print out a receipt for your own salary; here's the form. We'll meet you at the train station and walk you to the office." At the train station the lawyer looks at the form, notices a misprint, and says "Oh sorry, this is wrong. We don't want to make you look bad on the first day. Tell you what, I'll phone ahead to the company to let them know we're going to be a bit delayed. Wait here, I'll pop back to the office, print the form correctly this time, and we'll go in together then. That's the envelope? Great; give it to me and I'll put it in the safe; wouldn't want someone stealing it at the train station. Society is going to the dogs, you know?" Later that month, when asked by the police officers, the corporate officer can produce an impressive collection of meaningless powerpoint slides, business cards listing fake names of fake lawyers tied to phones stolen/registered with stolen credit cards/etc, and a total lack of understanding of what went wrong.

captaindiego 11y ago

Even getting a basic credit card in Japan as a foreigner can be a real pain. If you work for a big company and can get some oomph behind your application you're fine. But if you're a foreign student you're probably going to have trouble.

kagamine 11y ago
From numerous YT videos of well-established foreigners in Japan I understand that just moving house and being accepted for a rental contract is very difficult. Often foreigners are asked to pay higher deposits even though their income is from Japan and have lived there for years, and have rented without problem elsewhere. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odahzHioQQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odahzHioQQ4
- captaindiego 11y ago
  Yup that is spot on. My company wouldn't act as a guarantor for me so the only way to get a rental contract was to pay an additional $800 (and $100 per year after) for a special company to act as my guarantor. This is with a good salary and pay stubs to match. Don't even get me started on the rental company that takes a 1 month rent cut... or 2-3 months rent for "key money"... or ...
  - rangibaby 11y ago
    I would advise staying away from large rental companies because they charge a lot to do a little, but I believe key and gratitude money are set by the landlord. 1 month rent is the rental company's "finder fee", which is standard. It's all the other fees they sting you with that really hurt. I ended up paying about and extra month of rent per year for dumb shit that they decided to charge me for. And you had better make sure your apartment is better-than-spotless when you move out. Japanese law says that you don't have to pay for damage or wear and tear caused through everyday living, but they'll still try to keep your deposit or charge you for repairs.