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How are drivers being subjugated and what law is being violated. What evidence is there that they are actually employees besides the fact that lawyers and union

by steven2012 11y ago

How are drivers being subjugated and what law is being violated. What evidence is there that they are actually employees besides the fact that lawyers and union activists want them to be?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- steven2012 11y ago
  Well, yes, that's the whole point of this article. My point is that I don't believe there is enough evidence for the judge to make this ruling.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
secondtimeuse 11y ago
You are watching a classic 21st century robbery in action, where lawyers are robbing corporations and employees under some pretense of magical justice. Counting the downvotes on comments, HN has sharply taken a socialist turn and lawyers are the new superheroes saving people from Evil startups. In other news Bernie Sanders hates Uber despite using it nearly 100% of time.[1] [1] http://thehill.com/policy/technology/250480-bernie-sanders-says-he-has-serious-problems-with-uber http://thehill.com/policy/technology/250480-bernie-sanders-s...
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > You are watching a classic 21st century robbery in action, where lawyers are robbing corporations and employees under some pretense of magical justice. You misspelled "labor regulations" at the end of you sentence. Labor rights > corporate rights.
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  You could have at least used "startups" instead of "corporations" if you wanted to appeal to emotion. Socialist or capitalist, who would cry over a "corporation"?
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > Socialist or capitalist, who would cry over a "corporation"? Industrialists or Libertarians.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
> How are drivers being subjugated and what law is being violated. Drivers are being paid as independent contractors. Under the current Uber model, they are not independent contractors as defined by labor law (nor the IRS). Ergo, Uber is in violation of both labor law and tax regulations; if they are found to have violated IRS employee classification rules, they'll be liable for back taxes, penalties, and officers of the company can be held personally liable. > What evidence is there that they are actually employees besides the fact that lawyers and union activists want them to be? You must be blinded by some sort of belief that Uber is the victim here; my apologies. Employee vs independent contractor classifications can sometimes be difficult, but the gist of it is: If you tell someone how to do the work, and you set the price, they're an employee; if you give someone the work, they set their prices, and they have control over how the work is performed, they're a contractor. Guess which model Uber uses?
- steven2012 11y ago
  You are wrong. They are independent contractors. They are not employees as defined by current labor laws. I think it is you that are blinded by your beliefs. They are not told how to do the work. Each driver chooses when they want to work and how long they work. They are free to work with whomever else they want, including other ride sharing companies at the same time. Uber is a marketplace that brings drivers and riders together. It's not an employer because drivers have complete freedom.
  - timwaagh 11y ago
    although i think most people would agree with this the local laws apparently say everyone who does something central to the core business of a company and gets paid for it by the company is an employee. it's in the article.
    - pfarnsworth 11y ago
      Except for taxi drivers.
- manicdee 11y ago
adevine 11y ago
There are rules about what makes a worker an employee vs a contractor, and they mostly center around control - if the company controls how the work is done, you are an employee. In Uber's case, while there are a lot of things that point to the worker being a contractor (Uber has no control over their hours, workers provide their own equipment, workers can work for competing companies), some things look more like an employee relationship (Uber sets prices being a big one). See http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-employee-lawsuits-could-change-business-models-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-employee-lawsui...

How are drivers being subjugated and what law is being violated. What evidence is there that they are actually employees besides the fact that lawyers and union activists want them to be?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

steven2012 11y ago
Well, yes, that's the whole point of this article. My point is that I don't believe there is enough evidence for the judge to make this ruling.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

secondtimeuse 11y ago

You are watching a classic 21st century robbery in action, where lawyers are robbing corporations and employees under some pretense of magical justice. Counting the downvotes on comments, HN has sharply taken a socialist turn and lawyers are the new superheroes saving people from Evil startups. In other news Bernie Sanders hates Uber despite using it nearly 100% of time.[1] [1] http://thehill.com/policy/technology/250480-bernie-sanders-says-he-has-serious-problems-with-uber http://thehill.com/policy/technology/250480-bernie-sanders-s...

toomuchtodo 11y ago
> You are watching a classic 21st century robbery in action, where lawyers are robbing corporations and employees under some pretense of magical justice. You misspelled "labor regulations" at the end of you sentence. Labor rights > corporate rights.
Apocryphon 11y ago
You could have at least used "startups" instead of "corporations" if you wanted to appeal to emotion. Socialist or capitalist, who would cry over a "corporation"?
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > Socialist or capitalist, who would cry over a "corporation"? Industrialists or Libertarians.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

> How are drivers being subjugated and what law is being violated. Drivers are being paid as independent contractors. Under the current Uber model, they are not independent contractors as defined by labor law (nor the IRS). Ergo, Uber is in violation of both labor law and tax regulations; if they are found to have violated IRS employee classification rules, they'll be liable for back taxes, penalties, and officers of the company can be held personally liable. > What evidence is there that they are actually employees besides the fact that lawyers and union activists want them to be? You must be blinded by some sort of belief that Uber is the victim here; my apologies. Employee vs independent contractor classifications can sometimes be difficult, but the gist of it is: If you tell someone how to do the work, and you set the price, they're an employee; if you give someone the work, they set their prices, and they have control over how the work is performed, they're a contractor. Guess which model Uber uses?

steven2012 11y ago
You are wrong. They are independent contractors. They are not employees as defined by current labor laws. I think it is you that are blinded by your beliefs. They are not told how to do the work. Each driver chooses when they want to work and how long they work. They are free to work with whomever else they want, including other ride sharing companies at the same time. Uber is a marketplace that brings drivers and riders together. It's not an employer because drivers have complete freedom.
- timwaagh 11y ago
  although i think most people would agree with this the local laws apparently say everyone who does something central to the core business of a company and gets paid for it by the company is an employee. it's in the article.
  - pfarnsworth 11y ago
    Except for taxi drivers.
manicdee 11y ago

adevine 11y ago

There are rules about what makes a worker an employee vs a contractor, and they mostly center around control - if the company controls how the work is done, you are an employee. In Uber's case, while there are a lot of things that point to the worker being a contractor (Uber has no control over their hours, workers provide their own equipment, workers can work for competing companies), some things look more like an employee relationship (Uber sets prices being a big one). See http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-employee-lawsuits-could-change-business-models-2015-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-employee-lawsui...