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To me, this seems like the sort of project that would benefit greatly by putting an experienced project manager between the client (ie Rumsfeld) and the dev tea

To me, this seems like the sort of project that would benefit greatly by putting an experienced project manager between the client (ie Rumsfeld) and the dev team. Other than planning meetings, I really think non-technical stake holders should never communicate directly with developers. I say that as a developer.

voltagex_ 11y ago
Sometimes, especially in smaller teams, devs also have to act in a business analyst role as well as coding - I've got to know how to talk to business as well as other developers and managers.
briandear 11y ago
So, we add another salary to the team for something that amounts to a small project? If devs don't have the acumen to deal with "clients" directly, then they ought not take on projects that would require working with clients. I see this all the time, especially with offshore development. I was the lead for a US project with an additional India team. We had a US-based PM for the Indian contractor. Then we had an India based PM, then we had 3 developers. Any time I needed to discuss something, I had to consult with the US PM, the US PM consulted with the India-based PM and the India based PM would then ask the devs. Then the answer would go through that path in reverse. A simple question like, "Where is the setup script file in the repo?" That took literally 6 emails, with delays of several hours between responses. Needless to say, that arrangement didn't last long before I fired the company. My point is that you don't always need an experienced project manager depending on the scope of the project and the number of developers. 10 devs -- yes absolutely. But 2 or 3 devs? Not necessarily.
- sopooneo 11y ago
  I agree with you completely. I think there is definitely a minimum project scope before a PM becomes a good investment. But I also think there should be a multiplier for how scattered/non-technical/crazy the client is.

voltagex_ 11y ago

Sometimes, especially in smaller teams, devs also have to act in a business analyst role as well as coding - I've got to know how to talk to business as well as other developers and managers.

briandear 11y ago

So, we add another salary to the team for something that amounts to a small project? If devs don't have the acumen to deal with "clients" directly, then they ought not take on projects that would require working with clients. I see this all the time, especially with offshore development. I was the lead for a US project with an additional India team. We had a US-based PM for the Indian contractor. Then we had an India based PM, then we had 3 developers. Any time I needed to discuss something, I had to consult with the US PM, the US PM consulted with the India-based PM and the India based PM would then ask the devs. Then the answer would go through that path in reverse. A simple question like, "Where is the setup script file in the repo?" That took literally 6 emails, with delays of several hours between responses. Needless to say, that arrangement didn't last long before I fired the company. My point is that you don't always need an experienced project manager depending on the scope of the project and the number of developers. 10 devs -- yes absolutely. But 2 or 3 devs? Not necessarily.

sopooneo 11y ago
I agree with you completely. I think there is definitely a minimum project scope before a PM becomes a good investment. But I also think there should be a multiplier for how scattered/non-technical/crazy the client is.