6 ms·

The Uberwomen Who Beat Sleep: Origin of the "Uberman" polyphasic sleep schedule

30 points by jimsojim 11y ago

crb002 11y ago
Experimented with polyphasic sleep back in grad school. Pretty sure it is bunk. Your body needs hours of sleep to raise HGH levels and conduct proper maintence.
cryoshon 11y ago
I had a friend who did Uberman once. It was hard to be around him at times because he would sometimes very rapidly deteriorate into sleep as he approached one of his sanctioned sleeping periods. Aside from those sanctioned sleeping periods, I'd estimate he was maybe a third actually-awake about seventy percent of the time.
adam12 11y ago
I hope people who experiment with Uberman don't drive.
- Eldarrion 11y ago
  That's like hoping people will not talk on the phone/watch TV or eat soup (using both hands) while driving. I think the worst thing I saw ever was this woman who was having cereal while going 75+ MPH on the highway. She was holding the bowl in her left hand, she'd move her right hand off the wheel, reach down (assuming to the cup holder), grab a spoon, lift it, dip in the bowl, move to her mouth and then return the spoon back to its position before reaching up to grab the wheel again. The whole procedure takes somewhere north of 5 seconds to accomplish. Add to that the fact that she was going at least 20 over the limit and that at any point in time, her eyes are shifting to look into the bowl to see if she's scooped enough, down to the cup holder to check and make sure she's picked up/dropped the spoon properly and you're in trouble.
- Splines 11y ago
  Ironically if you're employed but don't drive, you either take the bus, walk or work from home; all these options leave you with extra time in your day and less of a need for Uberman.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  I know a narcoleptic who is able to drive in town, but absolutely cannot drive on the autobahn-style US interstate highways between cities for very long, at any time of day. It has to do with orexin. Orexin helps keep you awake. But you produce less of it when you are sedentary or bored. When there is mental engagement with a task, it is easier to stay awake. The very qualities that make limited access highways useful for most of us, to get places more quickly, make them deadly for people with orexin-deficiency sleep disorders. That's why I hope polyphasic sleep experimenters only drive on the interesting or challenging stretches of road.
orthoganol 11y ago
I read a bit on the polyphastic sleep society's website [1], and it looks entirely premised on the idea that light sleep is 'non recovering', yet it makes up >= 65% of our 8 hour sleep schedules, so they cut it out via schedules that drop you directly into deep sleep (REM and 'slow wave sleep'). I would like to know more about their claim of the unimportance of light sleep. I also don't like that the people cited in the article are writing books and pushing product. [1] http://www.polyphasicsociety.com/polyphasic-sleep/beginners/ http://www.polyphasicsociety.com/polyphasic-sleep/beginners/
outworlder 11y ago
> During sleep deprivation, he says, “The brain, probably because it is so tired, starts to have difficulties gauging its own level of sleepiness.” Eventually, an exhausted brain gives up on sending you signals that it needs rest. You feel OK precisely because you’re not. If true, I think that's the most important point of the article. If you can't trust your own brain, you can't any claims made by people trying that sort of schedule. Also, the amount of effort you have to put up with in order to even start sleeping like that suggests me that's unnatural and unhealthy. We may even have some kind of adaptation for that in the short term. Think cavemen who just lost his shelter and needs to find another in dangerous territory. It's conceivable that one could spend a few weeks not sleeping much until conditions improve. Forget about longer term effects, since survival is at stake. So, the brain keeps getting pulled out of sleep due to perceived dangers (in modern times, that's the alarm clock). Then it switches off part of the sleep mechanism so that the subject will have a better chance of moving away from danger.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  > If true, I think that's the most important point of the article. If you can't trust your own brain, you can't any claims made by people trying that sort of schedule. It is true. Exhaustion [past a certain point] is essentially equivalent to being drunk. http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/sleep-deprivation-is-as-bad-for-your-performance-as-alcohol.html http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/sleep-deprivation-is-as-... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/ > Moderate sleep deprivation produces impairments in cognitive and motor performance equivalent to legally prescribed levels of alcohol intoxication Much like with a drunk person, you can't trust what they are telling you.
  - bcassedy 11y ago
    As someone that has experimented with polyphasic sleep, I'd like to see some studies designed in such a way that they mirror what people actually do when they switch to one of these schedules. That is to say allow for an adjustment period. I know for me, getting to the point where I could fall asleep for the naps was the hardest part. I ended up basically skipping a night of sleep and then entering into the nap protocol. That first couple of weeks was brutal but I stayed on a polyphasic sleep schedule for about 6 months. I can't definitively say that my cognitive function wasn't reduced over that 6 month period, but it certainly wasn't like being drunk. At the time I was a professional poker player and I was not measurably less profitable per 100 hands and played a much higher volume than normal during that stretch. Ultimately I stopped the cycle due to loneliness. I already had a very solitary job, but adding another 6 - 8 hours of alone time to each day weighs on you for sure. I think with a normal, albeit flexible, job this would have been more sustainable for me.
SwellJoe 11y ago
I've tried polyphasic sleep on a number of occasions over the past couple of decades, with a few different schedules. It doesn't work (for me). Perpetual grogginess becomes the norm, and I always felt tired, occasionally short of breath and prone to heartburn (this one seems weird, but I get heartburn when I'm overly tired in normal circumstances, as well). The best science I've been able to find on the subject seems to match that experience. Some people can "feel fine" on a polyphasic schedule, but in tests there does seem to be a decline in performance. Slower response times and less accuracy on hand-eye tests, etc. that is similar to the decline experienced by sleep deprived subjects. I'd love to have several extra hours a day, but from what I can tell, there are trade offs that nullify the productivity and "more time" advantages.
MollyR 11y ago
I tried this during college, and nearly ended up hospitalized from hallucinations and a mini seizure. My sleep cycle was ruined for a year. I had to pay around a thousand usd for a sleep study, and had to see a sleep specialist for a year. He told me I was pretty lucky, if I tried it any longer I could have gotten permanent brain damage. He was suspicious of polyphasic claims, because he often saw people use modafinil in conjunction with this(especially among lawyers). Maybe some people are genetically predisposed to this form of sleeping, but running experiments on yourself may not be worth it.
- colund 11y ago
  It's fascination how people who consider themselves smart put themselves in dangerous situations which sound and humble people would never even consider.
  - MollyR 11y ago
    The pressure (asian parents) and competition for grades and jobs got the better of me. I felt desperate and overloaded. Looking back, it's seems ridiculous, but only because I have a job. I can't imagine what its like to have a ton of student debt and no job.
- rubicon33 11y ago
  You should look up the popular YouTuber & tech CEO "Casey Neistat". He proclaims in his daily vlog, to regularly getting 4-5 hours of sleep. On top of that, he runs 8-14 miles (at a sub 8 minute pace), nearly every day. On top of that, he has a new born, and just launched a thriving tech company - Beme. I saw a post somewhere that suggested he is likely using modafinil. I wonder how many of these uber-successful people, are using modafinil to shorten their sleep cycle?
  - geoelectric 11y ago
    4-5 hours of sleep as a typical habit isn't that rare, unfortunately.
tankerdude 11y ago
That is interesting except that it seems a bit anecdotal in terms of usability. Is anyone doing cognitive tests to ensure that your brain is actually working optimally and answering hard questions?

30 points by jimsojim 11y ago

Experimented with polyphasic sleep back in grad school. Pretty sure it is bunk. Your body needs hours of sleep to raise HGH levels and conduct proper maintence.

cryoshon 11y ago

I had a friend who did Uberman once. It was hard to be around him at times because he would sometimes very rapidly deteriorate into sleep as he approached one of his sanctioned sleeping periods. Aside from those sanctioned sleeping periods, I'd estimate he was maybe a third actually-awake about seventy percent of the time.

adam12 11y ago

I hope people who experiment with Uberman don't drive.

Eldarrion 11y ago
That's like hoping people will not talk on the phone/watch TV or eat soup (using both hands) while driving. I think the worst thing I saw ever was this woman who was having cereal while going 75+ MPH on the highway. She was holding the bowl in her left hand, she'd move her right hand off the wheel, reach down (assuming to the cup holder), grab a spoon, lift it, dip in the bowl, move to her mouth and then return the spoon back to its position before reaching up to grab the wheel again. The whole procedure takes somewhere north of 5 seconds to accomplish. Add to that the fact that she was going at least 20 over the limit and that at any point in time, her eyes are shifting to look into the bowl to see if she's scooped enough, down to the cup holder to check and make sure she's picked up/dropped the spoon properly and you're in trouble.
Splines 11y ago
Ironically if you're employed but don't drive, you either take the bus, walk or work from home; all these options leave you with extra time in your day and less of a need for Uberman.
logfromblammo 11y ago
I know a narcoleptic who is able to drive in town, but absolutely cannot drive on the autobahn-style US interstate highways between cities for very long, at any time of day. It has to do with orexin. Orexin helps keep you awake. But you produce less of it when you are sedentary or bored. When there is mental engagement with a task, it is easier to stay awake. The very qualities that make limited access highways useful for most of us, to get places more quickly, make them deadly for people with orexin-deficiency sleep disorders. That's why I hope polyphasic sleep experimenters only drive on the interesting or challenging stretches of road.

orthoganol 11y ago

I read a bit on the polyphastic sleep society's website [1], and it looks entirely premised on the idea that light sleep is 'non recovering', yet it makes up >= 65% of our 8 hour sleep schedules, so they cut it out via schedules that drop you directly into deep sleep (REM and 'slow wave sleep'). I would like to know more about their claim of the unimportance of light sleep. I also don't like that the people cited in the article are writing books and pushing product. [1] http://www.polyphasicsociety.com/polyphasic-sleep/beginners/ http://www.polyphasicsociety.com/polyphasic-sleep/beginners/

outworlder 11y ago

> During sleep deprivation, he says, “The brain, probably because it is so tired, starts to have difficulties gauging its own level of sleepiness.” Eventually, an exhausted brain gives up on sending you signals that it needs rest. You feel OK precisely because you’re not. If true, I think that's the most important point of the article. If you can't trust your own brain, you can't any claims made by people trying that sort of schedule. Also, the amount of effort you have to put up with in order to even start sleeping like that suggests me that's unnatural and unhealthy. We may even have some kind of adaptation for that in the short term. Think cavemen who just lost his shelter and needs to find another in dangerous territory. It's conceivable that one could spend a few weeks not sleeping much until conditions improve. Forget about longer term effects, since survival is at stake. So, the brain keeps getting pulled out of sleep due to perceived dangers (in modern times, that's the alarm clock). Then it switches off part of the sleep mechanism so that the subject will have a better chance of moving away from danger.

fweespeech 11y ago
> If true, I think that's the most important point of the article. If you can't trust your own brain, you can't any claims made by people trying that sort of schedule. It is true. Exhaustion [past a certain point] is essentially equivalent to being drunk. http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/sleep-deprivation-is-as-bad-for-your-performance-as-alcohol.html http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/sleep-deprivation-is-as-... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/ > Moderate sleep deprivation produces impairments in cognitive and motor performance equivalent to legally prescribed levels of alcohol intoxication Much like with a drunk person, you can't trust what they are telling you.
- bcassedy 11y ago
  As someone that has experimented with polyphasic sleep, I'd like to see some studies designed in such a way that they mirror what people actually do when they switch to one of these schedules. That is to say allow for an adjustment period. I know for me, getting to the point where I could fall asleep for the naps was the hardest part. I ended up basically skipping a night of sleep and then entering into the nap protocol. That first couple of weeks was brutal but I stayed on a polyphasic sleep schedule for about 6 months. I can't definitively say that my cognitive function wasn't reduced over that 6 month period, but it certainly wasn't like being drunk. At the time I was a professional poker player and I was not measurably less profitable per 100 hands and played a much higher volume than normal during that stretch. Ultimately I stopped the cycle due to loneliness. I already had a very solitary job, but adding another 6 - 8 hours of alone time to each day weighs on you for sure. I think with a normal, albeit flexible, job this would have been more sustainable for me.

SwellJoe 11y ago

I've tried polyphasic sleep on a number of occasions over the past couple of decades, with a few different schedules. It doesn't work (for me). Perpetual grogginess becomes the norm, and I always felt tired, occasionally short of breath and prone to heartburn (this one seems weird, but I get heartburn when I'm overly tired in normal circumstances, as well). The best science I've been able to find on the subject seems to match that experience. Some people can "feel fine" on a polyphasic schedule, but in tests there does seem to be a decline in performance. Slower response times and less accuracy on hand-eye tests, etc. that is similar to the decline experienced by sleep deprived subjects. I'd love to have several extra hours a day, but from what I can tell, there are trade offs that nullify the productivity and "more time" advantages.

MollyR 11y ago

I tried this during college, and nearly ended up hospitalized from hallucinations and a mini seizure. My sleep cycle was ruined for a year. I had to pay around a thousand usd for a sleep study, and had to see a sleep specialist for a year. He told me I was pretty lucky, if I tried it any longer I could have gotten permanent brain damage. He was suspicious of polyphasic claims, because he often saw people use modafinil in conjunction with this(especially among lawyers). Maybe some people are genetically predisposed to this form of sleeping, but running experiments on yourself may not be worth it.

colund 11y ago
It's fascination how people who consider themselves smart put themselves in dangerous situations which sound and humble people would never even consider.
- MollyR 11y ago
  The pressure (asian parents) and competition for grades and jobs got the better of me. I felt desperate and overloaded. Looking back, it's seems ridiculous, but only because I have a job. I can't imagine what its like to have a ton of student debt and no job.
rubicon33 11y ago
You should look up the popular YouTuber & tech CEO "Casey Neistat". He proclaims in his daily vlog, to regularly getting 4-5 hours of sleep. On top of that, he runs 8-14 miles (at a sub 8 minute pace), nearly every day. On top of that, he has a new born, and just launched a thriving tech company - Beme. I saw a post somewhere that suggested he is likely using modafinil. I wonder how many of these uber-successful people, are using modafinil to shorten their sleep cycle?
- geoelectric 11y ago
  4-5 hours of sleep as a typical habit isn't that rare, unfortunately.

tankerdude 11y ago

That is interesting except that it seems a bit anecdotal in terms of usability. Is anyone doing cognitive tests to ensure that your brain is actually working optimally and answering hard questions?