4 ms·

This relates to a brief push for the development of such an OS back in 2014; it didn't go anywhere, and I'm not aware of any recent activity on this front. htt

This relates to a brief push for the development of such an OS back in 2014; it didn't go anywhere, and I'm not aware of any recent activity on this front. http://www.rudebaguette.com/2014/06/06/digital-sovereignty-cant-os-made-france/ http://www.rudebaguette.com/2014/06/06/digital-sovereignty-c... It's a great use of Superdupont imagery, however. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdupont https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdupont

SwellJoe 11y ago
France does weird shit like this pretty regularly. The culture defenders at L'Académie française invented a word for email, "courriel", to try to prevent the English derived word from becoming more common in France. It's a vaguely creepy bit of nationalism and thought policing from an otherwise mostly reasonable nation.
- dudul 11y ago
  "Weird shit" like trying to resist to American cultural imperialism? Why is it so "weird" that some countries would like to preserve their language? Or not be dependent on America's Internet? Or GPS? It reminds me of the anti-France campaign when they were working on their own nuclear weapons. America couldn't stand to see another nation work on developing their own nuclear power instead of being just happy to be protected by the US and NATO. Americans like to complain that they have to spend big money to be the world's policeman, but when a country tries to emancipate from American influence it is met with derision.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    I hear a lot about American 'imperialism' in cultural phenomenon. That seems a strong word. It implies a jack-booted dictator forcing something on the world. What I see is, the success of American cultural behaviors is emulated widely. Folks get upset about this and blame America for its success. Instead of, I don't know, blaming folks for emulating America? If you can even argue that they are 'to blame' for anything.
  - SwellJoe 11y ago
    It is a nationalist behavior and I find nationalism weird. I concede that I say that from a place of privilege, in some regards, because I was born and raised in the US, which also has a number of weird and uncomfortable nationalist traits and behaviors. I also find the behavior of the US distasteful, to say the least. But, that's not the subject here. I believe it is wrong-headed to invent new terminology for something that has a universally recognized meaning. "email" is not American cultural imperialism, it is a powerful democratizing force that serves the whole damned planet. I'm not opposed to efforts to distribute the responsibility and decentralize control over Internet resources, in fact I support them. Inventing an OS from scratch, when there are several international and Open Source or Free operating systems already developed in the most democratic/meritocratic fashion imaginable (with occasional flaws due to human fallibility), is nationalist bullshit and should be made fun of. The kind of thinking that leads to that sort of behavior and attitude deserves nothing but scorn and disdain. I make fun of North Korea, too. "Americans like to complain that they have to spend big money to be the world's policeman, but when a country tries to emancipate from American influence it is met with derision." How did we get here in this conversation?
- carlob 11y ago
  I dunno, a ton of computer related words are translated in Spanish as well. Also, courriel is not the worst offender (I quite like it), I think logiciel vs matériel is much worse than software vs hardware as it doesn't really show the dualism between mind and matter that Descartes (a Frenchman no less) invented. Res cogitans and res extensa would have been better in my opinion…
  - SwellJoe 11y ago
    I don't think it is comparable, unless Spain has an organization whose purpose is to prevent the influx of outside cultural influences that formalizes use of the translated words. I don't know enough about Spain to know (one of my ex-girlfriends was a Francophile, so I have some familiarity with French culture on a number of fronts, though I'm definitely not an expert).
    - carlob 11y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Academia_Española https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Academia_Española It's similar in terms of language, but very different in terms of culture. Since Spain is a multilingual country the language is does not play a big part in the nationalistic sentiment (though this was different under Franco). The French national identity revolves pretty much around the language and its uniformity: if you went to a French public school and speak French then you are as good as French (remember that France has jus soli). You can contrast this with Germany, where there are many different dialectal variants of German and they are all acceptable and the German identity is more focussed on blood. Or with the USA which don't even have an official language. Once you understand this, you'll understand why it's so important for the France to translate everything and why they spend so much money promoting French in other countries: to them the fact that a lot of people in, say, Senegal speak French means that Senegal is somewhat still under their influence. The more people speak English in France, the more they feel they are a colony of the US.
- kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
  Courriel was invented in Quebec and imported by the academy.
palunon 11y ago
It's linked too the recent amendment that was made about it in the "Commission des Lois"
palunon 11y ago
It's linked too the recent amendment that was made about it in the "Commission des Lois"
palunon 11y ago
It's linked too the recent amendment that was made about it in the "Commission des Lois"

SwellJoe 11y ago

France does weird shit like this pretty regularly. The culture defenders at L'Académie française invented a word for email, "courriel", to try to prevent the English derived word from becoming more common in France. It's a vaguely creepy bit of nationalism and thought policing from an otherwise mostly reasonable nation.

dudul 11y ago
"Weird shit" like trying to resist to American cultural imperialism? Why is it so "weird" that some countries would like to preserve their language? Or not be dependent on America's Internet? Or GPS? It reminds me of the anti-France campaign when they were working on their own nuclear weapons. America couldn't stand to see another nation work on developing their own nuclear power instead of being just happy to be protected by the US and NATO. Americans like to complain that they have to spend big money to be the world's policeman, but when a country tries to emancipate from American influence it is met with derision.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  I hear a lot about American 'imperialism' in cultural phenomenon. That seems a strong word. It implies a jack-booted dictator forcing something on the world. What I see is, the success of American cultural behaviors is emulated widely. Folks get upset about this and blame America for its success. Instead of, I don't know, blaming folks for emulating America? If you can even argue that they are 'to blame' for anything.
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  It is a nationalist behavior and I find nationalism weird. I concede that I say that from a place of privilege, in some regards, because I was born and raised in the US, which also has a number of weird and uncomfortable nationalist traits and behaviors. I also find the behavior of the US distasteful, to say the least. But, that's not the subject here. I believe it is wrong-headed to invent new terminology for something that has a universally recognized meaning. "email" is not American cultural imperialism, it is a powerful democratizing force that serves the whole damned planet. I'm not opposed to efforts to distribute the responsibility and decentralize control over Internet resources, in fact I support them. Inventing an OS from scratch, when there are several international and Open Source or Free operating systems already developed in the most democratic/meritocratic fashion imaginable (with occasional flaws due to human fallibility), is nationalist bullshit and should be made fun of. The kind of thinking that leads to that sort of behavior and attitude deserves nothing but scorn and disdain. I make fun of North Korea, too. "Americans like to complain that they have to spend big money to be the world's policeman, but when a country tries to emancipate from American influence it is met with derision." How did we get here in this conversation?
carlob 11y ago
I dunno, a ton of computer related words are translated in Spanish as well. Also, courriel is not the worst offender (I quite like it), I think logiciel vs matériel is much worse than software vs hardware as it doesn't really show the dualism between mind and matter that Descartes (a Frenchman no less) invented. Res cogitans and res extensa would have been better in my opinion…
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  I don't think it is comparable, unless Spain has an organization whose purpose is to prevent the influx of outside cultural influences that formalizes use of the translated words. I don't know enough about Spain to know (one of my ex-girlfriends was a Francophile, so I have some familiarity with French culture on a number of fronts, though I'm definitely not an expert).
  - carlob 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Academia_Española https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Academia_Española It's similar in terms of language, but very different in terms of culture. Since Spain is a multilingual country the language is does not play a big part in the nationalistic sentiment (though this was different under Franco). The French national identity revolves pretty much around the language and its uniformity: if you went to a French public school and speak French then you are as good as French (remember that France has jus soli). You can contrast this with Germany, where there are many different dialectal variants of German and they are all acceptable and the German identity is more focussed on blood. Or with the USA which don't even have an official language. Once you understand this, you'll understand why it's so important for the France to translate everything and why they spend so much money promoting French in other countries: to them the fact that a lot of people in, say, Senegal speak French means that Senegal is somewhat still under their influence. The more people speak English in France, the more they feel they are a colony of the US.
kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
Courriel was invented in Quebec and imported by the academy.

palunon 11y ago

It's linked too the recent amendment that was made about it in the "Commission des Lois"

palunon 11y ago

It's linked too the recent amendment that was made about it in the "Commission des Lois"

palunon 11y ago

It's linked too the recent amendment that was made about it in the "Commission des Lois"