4 ms·

I've always presumed that ALL of my online activities are visible to the government or other nosy parties. I do stupid things sometimes, but not really stupid.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago
This sounds like a form of "I don't have anything to hide so I don't care if they spy on me."
- hodwik 11y ago
  No, it's more like "The internet is public, and I know I can't hide what I'm doing in public, so I don't do stupid things in public."
- jkaunisv1 11y ago
  It sounds to me like an acknowledgement that defending yourself against all possible vectors a determined attacker could take to obtain your data is a lot more work than just being a bit careful about what you say and do online. I'm not saying that's a desirable situation.
- gurkendoktor 11y ago
  No, worse! "I can't hide anything anyway, so I'll adjust my behaviour instead." There are things that I wouldn't ask Google while being logged in (or at all), and that sucks. These things are not "stupid" :(
- hitekker 11y ago
  It is. I've always countered with "So, you'd be okay if a government agent was watching you have sex with your wife? Every time it happened? For the next 10 years?" You're doing nothing wrong, nothing bad will come of it, but that question always brings that awkward pause: that realization that "wait a second, privacy IS important even if I'm not doing anything wrong." As a side note, people hide things from other people all the time. That's what people do. None of us would like it if all of our insecurities, resentments, any negative thought were exposed to others. In my opinion, those who say they have nothing to hide, are either profoundly ignorant of their selves, or simply lying to themselves and others, i.e. my job depends on me believing and extolling this untruth.
  - purpled_haze 11y ago
    > I've always countered with "So, you'd be okay if a government agent was watching you have sex with your wife? Every time it happened? For the next 10 years?" That actually wouldn't bother me at all. I'd kind of feel sorry for them, though. Neither of us is a trained actor/actress for that sort of thing, and we're not in prime shape, either.
  - cheatdeath 11y ago
    I'm not sure that's the best way to counter the quite common "I don't have anything to hide so I don't care if they spy on me" reaction. As the other reply to your comment shows, many would say that it's very unlikely a government agent would bother or want to watch them having sex. I usually counter by reminding them that it's not just about them - it's about journalists, whistleblowers, lawyers, judges, activists, politicians, etc. Should the government be able to access their communications and track their online activities? People generally understand why that is a bad thing. While everybody absolutely should be worried that their personal online activities are being tracked, it seems like that's a harder sell.
  - csandreasen 11y ago
    To which I would ask "Under what circumstances would the government pay a federal agent to watch me have sex for the next 10 years?" This and the similar comparisons that I often see raised in response to the "I have nothing to hide" argument are ridiculous hypotheticals that are raised without taking into account who is violating the subject's privacy and why. When someone says "I have nothing to hide" it's generally short for "I have committed no crimes and I trust law enforcement officials to a) only invade someone's privacy when they have reasonable grounds (implying that they got a warrant); and b) use any data collected only in pursuit of actual criminal investigations (e.g. they're not going to steal my credit cards and broadcast naked pictures all over the internet). If you're going to change people's minds with that argument, you need to be able to demonstrate that people's data is being routinely searched without just cause and/or police are routinely abusing the fruits of those searches.
    - hitekker 11y ago

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

This sounds like a form of "I don't have anything to hide so I don't care if they spy on me."

hodwik 11y ago
No, it's more like "The internet is public, and I know I can't hide what I'm doing in public, so I don't do stupid things in public."
jkaunisv1 11y ago
It sounds to me like an acknowledgement that defending yourself against all possible vectors a determined attacker could take to obtain your data is a lot more work than just being a bit careful about what you say and do online. I'm not saying that's a desirable situation.
gurkendoktor 11y ago
No, worse! "I can't hide anything anyway, so I'll adjust my behaviour instead." There are things that I wouldn't ask Google while being logged in (or at all), and that sucks. These things are not "stupid" :(
hitekker 11y ago
It is. I've always countered with "So, you'd be okay if a government agent was watching you have sex with your wife? Every time it happened? For the next 10 years?" You're doing nothing wrong, nothing bad will come of it, but that question always brings that awkward pause: that realization that "wait a second, privacy IS important even if I'm not doing anything wrong." As a side note, people hide things from other people all the time. That's what people do. None of us would like it if all of our insecurities, resentments, any negative thought were exposed to others. In my opinion, those who say they have nothing to hide, are either profoundly ignorant of their selves, or simply lying to themselves and others, i.e. my job depends on me believing and extolling this untruth.
- purpled_haze 11y ago
  > I've always countered with "So, you'd be okay if a government agent was watching you have sex with your wife? Every time it happened? For the next 10 years?" That actually wouldn't bother me at all. I'd kind of feel sorry for them, though. Neither of us is a trained actor/actress for that sort of thing, and we're not in prime shape, either.
- cheatdeath 11y ago
  I'm not sure that's the best way to counter the quite common "I don't have anything to hide so I don't care if they spy on me" reaction. As the other reply to your comment shows, many would say that it's very unlikely a government agent would bother or want to watch them having sex. I usually counter by reminding them that it's not just about them - it's about journalists, whistleblowers, lawyers, judges, activists, politicians, etc. Should the government be able to access their communications and track their online activities? People generally understand why that is a bad thing. While everybody absolutely should be worried that their personal online activities are being tracked, it seems like that's a harder sell.
- csandreasen 11y ago
  To which I would ask "Under what circumstances would the government pay a federal agent to watch me have sex for the next 10 years?" This and the similar comparisons that I often see raised in response to the "I have nothing to hide" argument are ridiculous hypotheticals that are raised without taking into account who is violating the subject's privacy and why. When someone says "I have nothing to hide" it's generally short for "I have committed no crimes and I trust law enforcement officials to a) only invade someone's privacy when they have reasonable grounds (implying that they got a warrant); and b) use any data collected only in pursuit of actual criminal investigations (e.g. they're not going to steal my credit cards and broadcast naked pictures all over the internet). If you're going to change people's minds with that argument, you need to be able to demonstrate that people's data is being routinely searched without just cause and/or police are routinely abusing the fruits of those searches.
  - hitekker 11y ago