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I was recently in the home of an old friend who reps for a few ultra high end audio companies. The entry level speakers were $30k. The mids, $90k. The 700lb

by crikli 11y ago

I was recently in the home of an old friend who reps for a few ultra high end audio companies. The entry level speakers were $30k. The mids, $90k. The 700lb top shelf models? $220k. Some things exist purely so they can have their purchase price shared and in the instance of high end audio, I can only imagine the margins involved. If this guy made the waves the article implies then someone in the industry tracked him down and incentivized him to go away.

overcast 11y ago
While I'll agree that just about any decently made amplifier of the same power level, is just the same as the next. Speakers certainly do sound different. $220,000 different? Probably not, but out of every piece of audiophile stuff that is mostly hocus pocus, a set of speakers make the biggest difference. When it comes to solid state components, it's just all parts everyone else is using. The processing features are just about the only thing that separate them.
- crikli 11y ago
  Probably not? Definitely not. At damn near a quarter mil for speakers you're way beyond the what the human ear can detect on the curve of diminishing returns. We agree though about speakers and the quick win they represent. They're like your car's tires, the primary interface between you and the medium, and an upgrade is the lowest hanging fruit.
  - overcast 11y ago
    Cost is irrelevant honestly, it's just an entirely different market. Just like hyper cars. Are the Zondas, Ageras, and Venenos worth $2+ million. Of course they aren't. You're paying for the prestige and image. Price is just what someone is willing to pay for.
    - crikli 11y ago
      Once the conversation shifts from performance to prestige and image, you're back to my original statement, which is about something existing primarily to have its purchase price shared. Your car example is perfect. If performance was the only metric the buyer of a Pagani cared about, he'd have bought a ZR-1 Corvette. But because anyone with a six figure income and a 730+ FICO can buy a Vette, the gazillionaire buys the Pagani, something that exists (in part) because it projects the buying capability of it's owner.
- rdale 11y ago
  One guy who I would describe as a genuine 'Audiophile Genius' is Nelson Pass. See: https://passlabs.com/ https://passlabs.com/ Nelson Pass has designed a series of innovative amplifiers that he sells as commercial products. He also releases circuit diagrams and build instructions his amplifiers, and helps out DIYers on public forums. In contrast, it is great that NwAvGuy has designed a budget headphone amplifier, and released the design with a no derivative works allowed Creative Commons license. But that falls a long way short of what Nelson Pass has produced over the years in my opinion. I think if you asked Nelson Pass whether or not all 'decently made' amplifiers sound the same, he would suggest you need do a bit of listening to different high quality designs.
apohn 11y ago
I doubt anybody from the industry tracked him down and made him go away. Headphone AMPs/DACs are typically made by smaller vendors or are low volume for big vendors. The major vendors are selling the "Beats by Dre" brand to people at Best Buy, and that isn't the same crowd NvAvGuy interacted with. The audiophile community is full of fanatics as extreme as religious fanatics, and probably he valued his sanity and mental health over dealing with those types of people.
- rdale 11y ago
  "The audiophile community is full of fanatics as extreme as religious fanatics.." No it's not.
  - apohn 11y ago
    Yes it is. Maybe I should have said "has many fanatics" instead of "full of" but they are absolutely as adamant and caustic as some religious fanatics. And on forums these people create the same kind of environment as the worst internet trolls. I'm not going to claim they are the type religious fanatics who would cause physical harm to a group of people, but they are as adamant in their beliefs as some extremely religious people and they preach their beliefs with similar aggressiveness. 10 years ago I would have never believed I would write the statement above. But after being on that forum and interacting with people in that community (e.g. at meets) for years there are most definitely people like that.

by crikli 11y ago

overcast 11y ago

While I'll agree that just about any decently made amplifier of the same power level, is just the same as the next. Speakers certainly do sound different. $220,000 different? Probably not, but out of every piece of audiophile stuff that is mostly hocus pocus, a set of speakers make the biggest difference. When it comes to solid state components, it's just all parts everyone else is using. The processing features are just about the only thing that separate them.

crikli 11y ago
Probably not? Definitely not. At damn near a quarter mil for speakers you're way beyond the what the human ear can detect on the curve of diminishing returns. We agree though about speakers and the quick win they represent. They're like your car's tires, the primary interface between you and the medium, and an upgrade is the lowest hanging fruit.
- overcast 11y ago
  Cost is irrelevant honestly, it's just an entirely different market. Just like hyper cars. Are the Zondas, Ageras, and Venenos worth $2+ million. Of course they aren't. You're paying for the prestige and image. Price is just what someone is willing to pay for.
  - crikli 11y ago
    Once the conversation shifts from performance to prestige and image, you're back to my original statement, which is about something existing primarily to have its purchase price shared. Your car example is perfect. If performance was the only metric the buyer of a Pagani cared about, he'd have bought a ZR-1 Corvette. But because anyone with a six figure income and a 730+ FICO can buy a Vette, the gazillionaire buys the Pagani, something that exists (in part) because it projects the buying capability of it's owner.
rdale 11y ago
One guy who I would describe as a genuine 'Audiophile Genius' is Nelson Pass. See: https://passlabs.com/ https://passlabs.com/ Nelson Pass has designed a series of innovative amplifiers that he sells as commercial products. He also releases circuit diagrams and build instructions his amplifiers, and helps out DIYers on public forums. In contrast, it is great that NwAvGuy has designed a budget headphone amplifier, and released the design with a no derivative works allowed Creative Commons license. But that falls a long way short of what Nelson Pass has produced over the years in my opinion. I think if you asked Nelson Pass whether or not all 'decently made' amplifiers sound the same, he would suggest you need do a bit of listening to different high quality designs.

apohn 11y ago

I doubt anybody from the industry tracked him down and made him go away. Headphone AMPs/DACs are typically made by smaller vendors or are low volume for big vendors. The major vendors are selling the "Beats by Dre" brand to people at Best Buy, and that isn't the same crowd NvAvGuy interacted with. The audiophile community is full of fanatics as extreme as religious fanatics, and probably he valued his sanity and mental health over dealing with those types of people.

rdale 11y ago
"The audiophile community is full of fanatics as extreme as religious fanatics.." No it's not.
- apohn 11y ago
  Yes it is. Maybe I should have said "has many fanatics" instead of "full of" but they are absolutely as adamant and caustic as some religious fanatics. And on forums these people create the same kind of environment as the worst internet trolls. I'm not going to claim they are the type religious fanatics who would cause physical harm to a group of people, but they are as adamant in their beliefs as some extremely religious people and they preach their beliefs with similar aggressiveness. 10 years ago I would have never believed I would write the statement above. But after being on that forum and interacting with people in that community (e.g. at meets) for years there are most definitely people like that.