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I am not certain what this new challenge is trying to achieve. The Arc challenge serves an immediate purpose: getting people to investigate Arc (and perhaps to

by murrayh 19y ago

I am not certain what this new challenge is trying to achieve. The Arc challenge serves an immediate purpose: getting people to investigate Arc (and perhaps to ease the sniping put-up-or-shut-up style). Thinking about a 100 year language seems very ivory tower like. I feel like that is something I should do after I create something useful and generate significant wealth.

davidw 19y ago
> Thinking about a 100 year language seems very ivory tower like. Agreed. I'd rather have something 'pretty good' right now, and worry about the future later. This industry changes too quickly to do something like worry about 100 years in the future. > I feel like that is something I should do after I create something useful and generate significant wealth. Disagree, and I think a truly great version of Arc is the opportunity cost of Viaweb and YCombinator. I think to create a truly great language, you have to really focus on your language, and probably start, if not in your 20ies, by around 30. I think that perhaps that ship has sailed for PG and Arc, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I think though, that YC is in some ways a bigger and better hack than Arc, and am glad he's done it - there are plenty of people to work on new languages (there are so many that the cost is essentially 0, for something that is not an easy project), but far fewer people in a position to do something like YC as successfully as PG has.
- murrayh 19y ago
  I wish I were more eloquent so I could state my opinions clearly. 'Writing a language' might be a component of creating a product. Language theology (sorry... hopefully you get what I mean, is there a word for this?) appears to me to be the worst kind of procrastination - the one where you think you are working but you really aren't.
- andreyf 19y ago
  > This industry changes too quickly to do something like worry about 100 years in the future. Disagree. It may seem ivory-tower-y, but it's a great aspiration, and I don't see anyone else doing it. PG is financially secure, and probably one of the smarter hackers out there - I think it would be hard for him to justify a less ambition goal - surely it's better than toiling away publishing academic papers for whatever academic fads are popular, the vast majority of which will lie discarded 100 years from now.
  - davidw 19y ago
    When I think about what technology was like 100 years ago, I'm dubious that aiming at 100 years from now is sensible. Creating and popularizing a good, hacker-friendly language that works well now is already a tough challenge and a worthy goal.
    - andreyf 19y ago
      When I think about what technology was like 100 years ago Touche... on the other hand, although I don't have artistic training, I'm sure there are techniques which have stayed around, even though photography has mostly "replaced" painting in most uses (or at least in some way...). By analogy, if some technology replaces explicit programming, people will still program.
cstejerean 19y ago
I'm trying to hopefully convince someone to write a new language I can use so that I don't have to write it myself.

by murrayh 19y ago

davidw 19y ago

> Thinking about a 100 year language seems very ivory tower like. Agreed. I'd rather have something 'pretty good' right now, and worry about the future later. This industry changes too quickly to do something like worry about 100 years in the future. > I feel like that is something I should do after I create something useful and generate significant wealth. Disagree, and I think a truly great version of Arc is the opportunity cost of Viaweb and YCombinator. I think to create a truly great language, you have to really focus on your language, and probably start, if not in your 20ies, by around 30. I think that perhaps that ship has sailed for PG and Arc, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I think though, that YC is in some ways a bigger and better hack than Arc, and am glad he's done it - there are plenty of people to work on new languages (there are so many that the cost is essentially 0, for something that is not an easy project), but far fewer people in a position to do something like YC as successfully as PG has.

murrayh 19y ago
I wish I were more eloquent so I could state my opinions clearly. 'Writing a language' might be a component of creating a product. Language theology (sorry... hopefully you get what I mean, is there a word for this?) appears to me to be the worst kind of procrastination - the one where you think you are working but you really aren't.
andreyf 19y ago
> This industry changes too quickly to do something like worry about 100 years in the future. Disagree. It may seem ivory-tower-y, but it's a great aspiration, and I don't see anyone else doing it. PG is financially secure, and probably one of the smarter hackers out there - I think it would be hard for him to justify a less ambition goal - surely it's better than toiling away publishing academic papers for whatever academic fads are popular, the vast majority of which will lie discarded 100 years from now.
- davidw 19y ago
  When I think about what technology was like 100 years ago, I'm dubious that aiming at 100 years from now is sensible. Creating and popularizing a good, hacker-friendly language that works well now is already a tough challenge and a worthy goal.
  - andreyf 19y ago
    When I think about what technology was like 100 years ago Touche... on the other hand, although I don't have artistic training, I'm sure there are techniques which have stayed around, even though photography has mostly "replaced" painting in most uses (or at least in some way...). By analogy, if some technology replaces explicit programming, people will still program.

cstejerean 19y ago

I'm trying to hopefully convince someone to write a new language I can use so that I don't have to write it myself.