4 ms·

Don't be silly- Apple gives Xcode away for free, it is not bloated nor complex, nor particularly proprietary (who do you think made LLVM?) and you don't need t

by MCRed 11y ago

Don't be silly- Apple gives Xcode away for free, it is not bloated nor complex, nor particularly proprietary (who do you think made LLVM?) and you don't need to seek anyone's approval to upload your software to github or to run it on your own device. You can write Arm assembly on your laptop and run it on your iPhone even easier than you can on an rPi. You are really wasting time hating on Apple and spinning them (i you really are an apple device owner) since Apple is the one who broke open the mobile device so you could run software with out permission (Before you had to get AT&T for Verizons permission to put code on your phone) and who made high quality development tools and platforms available for free. Apple is the one who shipped the Apple 1 with BASIC... and they haven't stopped.

hobs 11y ago
Apple didnt even have a mobile store at launch, it took third parties to get them out of their web only approach, you couldnt even write apps for the iphone until later patches.
cmrdporcupine 11y ago
PalmOS devices were touch screen mobile phone devices that were open to development long before Apple entered the market. There were J2ME devices as well.
greggman 11y ago
XCode is not free. It costs 1 Mac. Given the price difference between the cheapest mac and the cheapest alternatives the cost of XCode something > $0 Posted from a mac
- interpol_p 11y ago
  If we follow your argument to the logical extreme there is no such thing as free software because the computer to run such software almost always costs money? (Unless you receive a computer as a gift or it is freely leased; but then that applies to Macs as much as any computer.)
  - scintill76 11y ago
    The GNU toolchain (or whatever) is licensed to run on any hardware that you can possibly use it on, which will often be cheaper and more accessible than a Mac. Xcode requires Mac OS, which is only licensed for use on Apple hardware. You can buy used Apple hardware fairly cheaply, but I think that post still has a point about relative cost.
    - interpol_p 11y ago
      I'm not suggesting that hardware can't be cheaper. I'm saying that if you define free software as software that must be available on free hardware, then there is not much free software at all.
      - MawNicker 11y ago
        That's not his argument. His argument is that an apple computer is required for Xcode. An apple computer is a regular computer except that it costs more and comes with a bundle of software. Xcode is in the bundle. So... The price is indeterminable but definitely not $0. He hedged specifically against your reductio ad absurdem by mentioning the price difference.
        interpol_p 11y ago
        The argument was made against the statement "Apple gives Xcode away for free." They do give Xcode away for free. I didn't think that factoring a modern development computer into the price was a reasonable stance to take against that line.
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Mac isn't a modern development computer. It's a very specific modern development computer, and not necessarily the best in terms of quality/cost. We're getting unnecessarily deep into dissecting this single line anyway. The original poster's point was that Apple's hardware and software ecosystem, while of great quality, still isn't the "bicycle for the mind" because it's terribly locked down.
- simonh 11y ago
  But that argument simply books down to "more expensive computers cost more". True a Linux computer might cost $500 and got $0 more you can program on it. A Mac might cost $800 and for $0 more you can program on it. The marginal cost to develop is the same. But I could easily spec up a Linux workstation costing thousands of dollars. Macs being expensive doesn't make Linux computers more expensive, it doesn't raise he costs for anybody else. So who exactly is being harmed here? I just don't really see what useful point is being made.
Nullabillity 11y ago
> You are really wasting time hating on Apple and spinning them (i you really are an apple device owner) since Apple is the one who broke open the mobile device so you could run software with out permission (Before you had to get AT&T for Verizons permission to put code on your phone) and who made high quality development tools and platforms available for free. Where on earth are you getting this nonsense from? You could install unsigned applications without anyone's permission on old systems like S60 ages before the iPhone.
SixSigma 11y ago
> Apple is the one who broke open the mobile device so you could run software with out permission I was writing apps for my Nokia smartphone before the iPhone was even a project.

by MCRed 11y ago

hobs 11y ago

Apple didnt even have a mobile store at launch, it took third parties to get them out of their web only approach, you couldnt even write apps for the iphone until later patches.

cmrdporcupine 11y ago

PalmOS devices were touch screen mobile phone devices that were open to development long before Apple entered the market. There were J2ME devices as well.

greggman 11y ago

XCode is not free. It costs 1 Mac. Given the price difference between the cheapest mac and the cheapest alternatives the cost of XCode something > $0 Posted from a mac

interpol_p 11y ago
If we follow your argument to the logical extreme there is no such thing as free software because the computer to run such software almost always costs money? (Unless you receive a computer as a gift or it is freely leased; but then that applies to Macs as much as any computer.)
- scintill76 11y ago
  The GNU toolchain (or whatever) is licensed to run on any hardware that you can possibly use it on, which will often be cheaper and more accessible than a Mac. Xcode requires Mac OS, which is only licensed for use on Apple hardware. You can buy used Apple hardware fairly cheaply, but I think that post still has a point about relative cost.
  - interpol_p 11y ago
    I'm not suggesting that hardware can't be cheaper. I'm saying that if you define free software as software that must be available on free hardware, then there is not much free software at all.
    - MawNicker 11y ago
      That's not his argument. His argument is that an apple computer is required for Xcode. An apple computer is a regular computer except that it costs more and comes with a bundle of software. Xcode is in the bundle. So... The price is indeterminable but definitely not $0. He hedged specifically against your reductio ad absurdem by mentioning the price difference.
      - interpol_p 11y ago
        The argument was made against the statement "Apple gives Xcode away for free." They do give Xcode away for free. I didn't think that factoring a modern development computer into the price was a reasonable stance to take against that line.
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Mac isn't a modern development computer. It's a very specific modern development computer, and not necessarily the best in terms of quality/cost. We're getting unnecessarily deep into dissecting this single line anyway. The original poster's point was that Apple's hardware and software ecosystem, while of great quality, still isn't the "bicycle for the mind" because it's terribly locked down.
simonh 11y ago
But that argument simply books down to "more expensive computers cost more". True a Linux computer might cost $500 and got $0 more you can program on it. A Mac might cost $800 and for $0 more you can program on it. The marginal cost to develop is the same. But I could easily spec up a Linux workstation costing thousands of dollars. Macs being expensive doesn't make Linux computers more expensive, it doesn't raise he costs for anybody else. So who exactly is being harmed here? I just don't really see what useful point is being made.

Nullabillity 11y ago

> You are really wasting time hating on Apple and spinning them (i you really are an apple device owner) since Apple is the one who broke open the mobile device so you could run software with out permission (Before you had to get AT&T for Verizons permission to put code on your phone) and who made high quality development tools and platforms available for free. Where on earth are you getting this nonsense from? You could install unsigned applications without anyone's permission on old systems like S60 ages before the iPhone.

SixSigma 11y ago

> Apple is the one who broke open the mobile device so you could run software with out permission I was writing apps for my Nokia smartphone before the iPhone was even a project.