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This has nothing to do with Texas being forward thinking, but more with the huge subsidies dealing with wind power in the US. Private companies are building tur

This has nothing to do with Texas being forward thinking, but more with the huge subsidies dealing with wind power in the US. Private companies are building turbines and farms all over as Washington is fronting much of the bill for awhile. This is all about profit. It just so happens we get something good out of it, and yes ERCOT has some great engineers.

sremani 11y ago
Here is an interesting insight on this issue. http://apps.texastribune.org/perry-legacy/energy/ http://apps.texastribune.org/perry-legacy/energy/
g8oz 11y ago
It's not so much Washington fronting the bill as making an investment. And the cumulative effect of those investments globally is working. LCOE of wind is now $83/megawatt hour compared to $82 for natural gas(1). 1 - http://fortune.com/2015/10/06/wind-cheap-coal-gas/ http://fortune.com/2015/10/06/wind-cheap-coal-gas/
- barney54 11y ago
  You have to be careful comparing the cost of wind to the cost of nat gas and other reliable sources of generation. You can't count on wind. That makes it much less valuable than natural gas. But don't take my word for it, here is the Energy Information Adminstration making that point. https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm This wind build out really is driven by subsidies such as the wind production tax credit. The credit is large enough that wind producers can pay the electric grid to take their electricity and still make money.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Actually, you can count on wind. You can use weather prediction to know when it can and can't be there. I heard the following quote recently, "I know what the price of fuel for wind will be for the next 20 years. I know what the price of natural gas was yesterday." To us, it sounds like wind is intermittent. But that's fine; the wind is always blowing and the sun always shining somewhere (its transmission that needs to catch up). Non-renewable fuel coasts will always be unpredictable.
hueving 11y ago
So nobody in the bay area that drives a Nissan leaf is forward thinking then either because they are heavily subsidized. Am I correct in understanding your reasoning? Just because something has a subsidy doesn't mean the supporters are automatically profit hungry morons.
- tn13 11y ago
  Well if energy companies can make profit they cant run sustainably; which means others dependent on them cant grow either. Since when do people on HN started thinking of profit as opposite of "forward thinking" is beyond me. Of course I wont count government subsidies as profit because after all the poor Americans who end up paying tax aren't paying for that energy willingly. Arguments for massive government subsidies such as $8K for rich people's car Tesla is that this might speed up the economy of scale for these businesses and that it will eventually be affordable for ordinary people. ( Of course also the dubious claim that this all might help reduce some environmental problems.) I am worried that specific government subsidies for say Wind or Solar might be hurting some innovation in radically different directions.

sremani 11y ago

Here is an interesting insight on this issue. http://apps.texastribune.org/perry-legacy/energy/ http://apps.texastribune.org/perry-legacy/energy/

g8oz 11y ago

It's not so much Washington fronting the bill as making an investment. And the cumulative effect of those investments globally is working. LCOE of wind is now $83/megawatt hour compared to $82 for natural gas(1). 1 - http://fortune.com/2015/10/06/wind-cheap-coal-gas/ http://fortune.com/2015/10/06/wind-cheap-coal-gas/

barney54 11y ago
You have to be careful comparing the cost of wind to the cost of nat gas and other reliable sources of generation. You can't count on wind. That makes it much less valuable than natural gas. But don't take my word for it, here is the Energy Information Adminstration making that point. https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm This wind build out really is driven by subsidies such as the wind production tax credit. The credit is large enough that wind producers can pay the electric grid to take their electricity and still make money.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Actually, you can count on wind. You can use weather prediction to know when it can and can't be there. I heard the following quote recently, "I know what the price of fuel for wind will be for the next 20 years. I know what the price of natural gas was yesterday." To us, it sounds like wind is intermittent. But that's fine; the wind is always blowing and the sun always shining somewhere (its transmission that needs to catch up). Non-renewable fuel coasts will always be unpredictable.

hueving 11y ago

So nobody in the bay area that drives a Nissan leaf is forward thinking then either because they are heavily subsidized. Am I correct in understanding your reasoning? Just because something has a subsidy doesn't mean the supporters are automatically profit hungry morons.

tn13 11y ago
Well if energy companies can make profit they cant run sustainably; which means others dependent on them cant grow either. Since when do people on HN started thinking of profit as opposite of "forward thinking" is beyond me. Of course I wont count government subsidies as profit because after all the poor Americans who end up paying tax aren't paying for that energy willingly. Arguments for massive government subsidies such as $8K for rich people's car Tesla is that this might speed up the economy of scale for these businesses and that it will eventually be affordable for ordinary people. ( Of course also the dubious claim that this all might help reduce some environmental problems.) I am worried that specific government subsidies for say Wind or Solar might be hurting some innovation in radically different directions.