4 ms·

I use it, and I like it, and I think it works. But I also think they should really try to publish a paper on it, proving it works to improve e.g. people's sleep

I use it, and I like it, and I think it works. But I also think they should really try to publish a paper on it, proving it works to improve e.g. people's sleep quality.

robbiemitchell 11y ago
What's the incentive to do so? People like the app.
- scott_s 11y ago
  Because liking the app does not necessarily mean it has the effect on sleep as claimed. I would be very interested in studies testing its efficacy.
gwern 11y ago
It's free and not obviously harmful and has a plausible biological rationale, but if you think it may not work, it's easy to run your own self-experiment: stick it in a little randomized script and record when you go to bed for, say, 50 days and see. That's what I did with Redshift: http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#redshiftf.lux http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#redshiftf.lux
- irremediable 11y ago
  Fair point; more of us should imitate your attitude to these things.
- scott_s 11y ago
  Unfortunately, that self-experiment has the problem of the subject (yourself) knowing which "treatment" you're getting. I'm not sure how to double-blind something like this, though. It may require a study where we record subjects' sleep patters, make them use a screen at night, but don't tell them that it's the screen colors that are under experiment.
  - gwern 11y ago
    Empirically, I didn't notice and that almost screwed up the experiment; see the part where a driver change broke Redshift and I didn't notice for a month. (As well, I would note that you may be overestimating placebo or expectancy effects here. In the meta-analyses I've seen, randomization is much more important than placebo controls.)
    - scott_s 11y ago
      Interesting - if I understand correctly, you're saying that you didn't notice for a month that no color balance was happening. Then perhaps an even simpler experiment preliminary experiment could be done to just see how well subjects are able to guess if a screen has been color balanced at night. If most people can't tell most of the time, then that simplifies doing an efficacy experiment.
      - gwern 11y ago
        Not quite. The reddening is blatant, so if someone had asked me on any particular day if Redshift was on or not, I could always correctly answer. But it was randomized on a daily basis, so it is possible, even probable, for occasional long sequences like 100001 to happen where the shifting was on or off for multiple days in a row. What I'm saying is that I turned out to be paying so little attention to whether the shifting was on or off, certain that if it was off on a particular day that just meant the experiment was going as planned, that I didn't notice even 20+ days of a single setting.

I use it, and I like it, and I think it works. But I also think they should really try to publish a paper on it, proving it works to improve e.g. people's sleep quality.

robbiemitchell 11y ago

What's the incentive to do so? People like the app.

scott_s 11y ago
Because liking the app does not necessarily mean it has the effect on sleep as claimed. I would be very interested in studies testing its efficacy.

gwern 11y ago

It's free and not obviously harmful and has a plausible biological rationale, but if you think it may not work, it's easy to run your own self-experiment: stick it in a little randomized script and record when you go to bed for, say, 50 days and see. That's what I did with Redshift: http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#redshiftf.lux http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#redshiftf.lux

irremediable 11y ago
Fair point; more of us should imitate your attitude to these things.
scott_s 11y ago
Unfortunately, that self-experiment has the problem of the subject (yourself) knowing which "treatment" you're getting. I'm not sure how to double-blind something like this, though. It may require a study where we record subjects' sleep patters, make them use a screen at night, but don't tell them that it's the screen colors that are under experiment.
- gwern 11y ago
  Empirically, I didn't notice and that almost screwed up the experiment; see the part where a driver change broke Redshift and I didn't notice for a month. (As well, I would note that you may be overestimating placebo or expectancy effects here. In the meta-analyses I've seen, randomization is much more important than placebo controls.)
  - scott_s 11y ago
    Interesting - if I understand correctly, you're saying that you didn't notice for a month that no color balance was happening. Then perhaps an even simpler experiment preliminary experiment could be done to just see how well subjects are able to guess if a screen has been color balanced at night. If most people can't tell most of the time, then that simplifies doing an efficacy experiment.
    - gwern 11y ago
      Not quite. The reddening is blatant, so if someone had asked me on any particular day if Redshift was on or not, I could always correctly answer. But it was randomized on a daily basis, so it is possible, even probable, for occasional long sequences like 100001 to happen where the shifting was on or off for multiple days in a row. What I'm saying is that I turned out to be paying so little attention to whether the shifting was on or off, certain that if it was off on a particular day that just meant the experiment was going as planned, that I didn't notice even 20+ days of a single setting.