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That's cute. Why don't you set a good example for Google by sending the government double what you owe in income taxes this year? Just call it a gift, because y

That's cute. Why don't you set a good example for Google by sending the government double what you owe in income taxes this year? Just call it a gift, because you couldn't correctly call it a "civic duty." In fact, you're in a better position than Google to do so. Any publicly-traded company like Google would be immediately sued for dereliction of duty to shareholders to minimizing taxes if they decided to start giving away extra money (shareholders' money) to the government. By the way, in 2010 Google paid $2.3 billion federal tax on income of $10.8 billion.

lavezzi 11y ago
Why would he pay double his income taxes to set an example? No doubt he is already paying the government what he legally owes in that respect. Google on the other hand aren't, are they?
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  If your tax preparer tells you that, thanks to deductions written into tax law, you only need to pay half as much tax, do you tell them "no, leave the deductions off, I want to do my civic duty"? In this case, the UK government disagreed with the interpretation of those deductions, leading to a dispute that this article reports the resolution of. But that doesn't seem like any reason to claim that it's the "civic duty" of anyone, person or corporation, to pay more tax than they absolutely have to.
  - olau 11y ago
    The fallacy here is that when you look at the numbers, they're not just using ordinary deductions - they can't because then they couldn't arrive at these results. These kind of things work by deliberately setting up perverse virtual organizational structures to take advantage of complex loop holes. It is abusive, in the strict term of the word. Using your analogy, would what you say if your tax preparer told you that if you proforma-married a woman in country X and used her name to set up a non-existing company in country Y, because then you'd qualify for certain deductions?
    - robryan 11y ago
      Comparatively in terms of size of the commitment you example would be more like an accountant telling Google that they could make big savings if they moved 10k employees across to a tax haven. A better comparison for what is happening would be your accountant telling you you could pay them 1% of your yearly earnings extra and they could set you up to save many times that in tax.
jrockway 11y ago
Amazingly the government has a form that you can visit to make a gift to the US treasury, should you so please: https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454 https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454 More amusing is that the FCC has started calling their fines "voluntary contributions to the US treasury".
SixSigma 11y ago
> Any publicly-traded company like Google would be immediately sued for dereliction of duty to shareholders to minimizing taxes There is no such duty in law. What they have to do is operate in accordance with the mission statement in the annual report and this is decided by the shareholders at the AGM. If this said "we will pay maximum taxes in host countries where we operate" then shareholders could sue them for not doing that.
- robryan 11y ago
  Are their any good examples of large multinationals who have taken a stance similar to this?
  - SixSigma 11y ago
    I don't know about the "we pay taxes" specifically. But there are examples like Google and Facebook "don't expect any dividends" [1] Then there are a whole host of Corporate Social Responsibly activities [2] where companies promise to spend income on social programmes and other nice things. CSR is a growing movement. You can participate in ISO 26000 [3] which has a section on involvement in the community and other activities which potentially eat into raw profit. Companies can also get certified as SA 8000 [4] compliant but that is aimed more at the treatment of workers. [1] http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/11/06/why-google-doesnt-care-if-you-want-a-dividend.aspx http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/11/06/why-google-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibilit... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26000 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA8000
Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
I do, pretty much. I'm a freelancer with my own limited company. I could pay myself pretty much entirely from dividends (=lower tax rate) rather than wages subject to income tax. Many people do. Instead, I pay myself a living wage with standard PAYE income tax/National Insurance, and only use the dividend if I've made a profit in the year. Am I minimising my tax bill? No. But being a decent human being who contributes to a civilsed society is more important to me. Some of us actually believe in this "don't be evil" stuff.
- benashford 11y ago
  How's that different from any other freelancer? They all pay themselves a salary until they get to the higher income tax bands, then they pay a dividend. That's the most tax efficient way of doing it usually due to the presence of the personal allowance on income.
- tonyedgecombe 11y ago
  The government will then spend that money on dropping bombs on people in Iraq and Syria, propping up the housing market with dubious schemes and helping already wealthy pensioners. You might be better optimising your affairs for lower tax, then spending the money you gained on something more ethical.
  - Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
    I wouldn't disagree on the specifics, but in the round I believe in a tax-funded government. Our county council is closing children's centres, removing rural bus subsidies, cutting back education support, and a thousand other cuts. The more people that avoid tax, the more cuts there'll be.
    - luxpir 11y ago
      The tax receipts from individuals are a tiny fraction of those paid/due from large entities. The cuts are not due to individual tax dodgers, they are politically motivated.
    - 11y ago

lavezzi 11y ago

Why would he pay double his income taxes to set an example? No doubt he is already paying the government what he legally owes in that respect. Google on the other hand aren't, are they?

JoshTriplett 11y ago
If your tax preparer tells you that, thanks to deductions written into tax law, you only need to pay half as much tax, do you tell them "no, leave the deductions off, I want to do my civic duty"? In this case, the UK government disagreed with the interpretation of those deductions, leading to a dispute that this article reports the resolution of. But that doesn't seem like any reason to claim that it's the "civic duty" of anyone, person or corporation, to pay more tax than they absolutely have to.
- olau 11y ago
  The fallacy here is that when you look at the numbers, they're not just using ordinary deductions - they can't because then they couldn't arrive at these results. These kind of things work by deliberately setting up perverse virtual organizational structures to take advantage of complex loop holes. It is abusive, in the strict term of the word. Using your analogy, would what you say if your tax preparer told you that if you proforma-married a woman in country X and used her name to set up a non-existing company in country Y, because then you'd qualify for certain deductions?
  - robryan 11y ago
    Comparatively in terms of size of the commitment you example would be more like an accountant telling Google that they could make big savings if they moved 10k employees across to a tax haven. A better comparison for what is happening would be your accountant telling you you could pay them 1% of your yearly earnings extra and they could set you up to save many times that in tax.

jrockway 11y ago

Amazingly the government has a form that you can visit to make a gift to the US treasury, should you so please: https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454 https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454 More amusing is that the FCC has started calling their fines "voluntary contributions to the US treasury".

SixSigma 11y ago

> Any publicly-traded company like Google would be immediately sued for dereliction of duty to shareholders to minimizing taxes There is no such duty in law. What they have to do is operate in accordance with the mission statement in the annual report and this is decided by the shareholders at the AGM. If this said "we will pay maximum taxes in host countries where we operate" then shareholders could sue them for not doing that.

robryan 11y ago
Are their any good examples of large multinationals who have taken a stance similar to this?
- SixSigma 11y ago
  I don't know about the "we pay taxes" specifically. But there are examples like Google and Facebook "don't expect any dividends" [1] Then there are a whole host of Corporate Social Responsibly activities [2] where companies promise to spend income on social programmes and other nice things. CSR is a growing movement. You can participate in ISO 26000 [3] which has a section on involvement in the community and other activities which potentially eat into raw profit. Companies can also get certified as SA 8000 [4] compliant but that is aimed more at the treatment of workers. [1] http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/11/06/why-google-doesnt-care-if-you-want-a-dividend.aspx http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/11/06/why-google-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibilit... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26000 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA8000

Doctor_Fegg 11y ago

I do, pretty much. I'm a freelancer with my own limited company. I could pay myself pretty much entirely from dividends (=lower tax rate) rather than wages subject to income tax. Many people do. Instead, I pay myself a living wage with standard PAYE income tax/National Insurance, and only use the dividend if I've made a profit in the year. Am I minimising my tax bill? No. But being a decent human being who contributes to a civilsed society is more important to me. Some of us actually believe in this "don't be evil" stuff.

benashford 11y ago
How's that different from any other freelancer? They all pay themselves a salary until they get to the higher income tax bands, then they pay a dividend. That's the most tax efficient way of doing it usually due to the presence of the personal allowance on income.
tonyedgecombe 11y ago
The government will then spend that money on dropping bombs on people in Iraq and Syria, propping up the housing market with dubious schemes and helping already wealthy pensioners. You might be better optimising your affairs for lower tax, then spending the money you gained on something more ethical.
- Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
  I wouldn't disagree on the specifics, but in the round I believe in a tax-funded government. Our county council is closing children's centres, removing rural bus subsidies, cutting back education support, and a thousand other cuts. The more people that avoid tax, the more cuts there'll be.
  - luxpir 11y ago
    The tax receipts from individuals are a tiny fraction of those paid/due from large entities. The cuts are not due to individual tax dodgers, they are politically motivated.
  - 11y ago