6 ms·

This is pretty exciting. There have been loads of stability issues in the past, and it's always nice to see those issues addressed. I like the systemd integrati

by bg46z 11y ago

This is pretty exciting. There have been loads of stability issues in the past, and it's always nice to see those issues addressed. I like the systemd integration too, that's a nice touch.

LeoPanthera 11y ago
Is it usable without systemd? It seems like Linux is getting harder and harder to use without it, to the point where "A Linux system" is systemd.
- simoncion 11y ago
  > It seems like Linux is getting harder and harder to use without [systemd]... This Gentoo Linux user is getting along juuuuuust fine without systemd. :) Edit: To bring it on-topic: It's a damn shame that PA -apparently- doesn't let you set playback/record device preference lists that let you specify which of the potentially many sound devices in your system should be used when some or many of them are unavailable. It seems that KDE4 and -IIRC- 5 use Phonon to add this on top of PulseAudio. (Or, actually, they add this on top of whatever sound playback system you're using... whether it is JACK, ALSA, PA, or something else. I've never written software that interacts with Phonon, but -from an end-user perspective- it's pretty great.)
  - djsumdog 11y ago
    Good to see another Gentoo user. I was avoiding PulseAudio on my desktop, but it's feels necessary on a laptop, especially if you use Bluetooth. I did have a lot of problems with distorted audio on Linux games, but "killall -9 pulseaudio" before starting a game (forcing it to respawn) usually fixes it.
    - eeZi 11y ago
      Fortunately, Gentoo works fine with systemd, too. It's a nice feature of Gentoo that one can choose - ChromeOS uses Upstart and CoreOS systemd (both of them notable Gentoo derivates).
    - keithpeter 11y ago
      Slackware -current now includes pulse audio because of a desire to upgrade Bluetooth packages. See the Jan 13th entry in the ChangeLog.txt http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386 http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386
    - yrro 11y ago
      Please file a bug report.
      - makomk 11y ago
        I've been having the same problem with the same solution, but it didn't seem worth dealing with the hassle of reporting a bug for something I had no way of reliably reproducing knowing it'd most likely just get closed or ignored because of that.
    - simoncion 11y ago
      > Good to see another Gentoo user. Hai! :D > I was avoiding PulseAudio on my desktop, but it's feels necessary on a laptop, especially if you use Bluetooth. You know, I was gonna say "But I had A2DP working JUST FINE with bluez-alsa, and JACK knows about anything that ALSA knows about!"... and then I started digging around and learned that bluez-alsa hasn't worked since BlueZ 4.x. :/ [0] Guess I have another project in my queue. :P Hope I can get it in-tree without too much hassle. [0] I guess that tells me how long it has been since I've paired a Bluetooth headset with my laptop! ;)
      - digi_owl 11y ago
        > Hope I can get it in-tree without too much hassle. Good luck, i can't say i have my hopes up.
        simoncion 11y ago
        Oh, by in-tree, I mean "In the Gentoo Portage package tree.". Getting the work merged into Bluez proper would be nice, but I really don't care about that. :)
- Isn0gud 11y ago
  What is so bad about systemd?
  - simoncion 11y ago
    If you're genuinely interested in some discussion pertaining to the answer to that question, use your favorite search engine to search HN for likely phrases and skim until you find some discussion with a significant volume of commentary. Because of its political nature, this is a topic that's best not discussed unless you have some very specific questions or observations, and you are already very well informed about the merits and faults of both the systemd project and most of the other pieces of software that provide similar functionality. :)
    - jnbiche 11y ago
      > the systemd project and most of the other pieces of software that provide similar functionality Agreed. Emphasis on pieces of software, plural.
  - SFjulie1 11y ago
    It has a common point with systemd : the lead is Lennart Poettering. Sound on linux is a mess. And pulse audio is vastly blamed for it. Complex circonvoluted architecture that overpromised and under delivered.. The guy loves to brag about how he is the messiah of a problem and will fixt it, make galaxy like software that are unstable and leave a mess after his doing saying my job is done, let's work on another project where my genius is needed. But, after utterly messing up once, notably at the (lack of) design level, he has been entrusted to no overpromise again and make the ultimate revolution for the init process. A lot of coders did not believe in his repentance for the mess in pulse audio : he may be as arrogant as linus torvalds he is as smart and a good coder as rasmus lerdorf. The PID1 on linux is now known as a solar system of processes with nice chaotic trajectories and astronomers are seriously planning to use systemd alone as a nth body interaction simulator.. unexpected .
    - smt88 11y ago
      I switched from desktop Linux to Windows entirely because of Lennart Poettering. Audio was a complete disaster, as you mentioned. (This was only a few months ago.)
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  Considering that the release notes mention " * OS X and NetBSD support improvements", fears of it only running on Linux systems, let alone only Linux systems with systemd, seem rather unwarranted.
- igravious 11y ago
  Please, can we not have yet another rehash of that discussion? It would appear because it runs on OSX and *BSD that it shouldn't require Systemd on Linux though lets check, shall we? So a quick download and ./configure --help show SYSTEMD_LIBS linker flags for SYSTEMD, overriding pkg-config so it's whatever pkg-config is set to.
  - simoncion 11y ago
    > Please, can we not have yet another rehash of that discussion? I'm not sure what discussion you think we're having, but the conversation that was present ~four hours prior to your comment appears to be largely on-topic, informative, and civil. :)
    - baldfat 11y ago
      Call him a prophet because we are having the systemd conversation all over again :(
      - simoncion 11y ago
        Yeah. Thanks so much for not leaving well enough alone and contributing to that conversation. :(
        baldfat 11y ago
        Sorry I always get that feeling of defending progress. Its like that bug in "Bugs Life" I just fly right into the light. https://youtu.be/vod9DL4IhBM https://youtu.be/vod9DL4IhBM
- anonbanker 11y ago
  Calculate linux use pulseaudio with OpenRC. I usually rip it out and replace with JACK (which is rock stable and far more robust than PA), but it definitely doesn't need systemd yet.
- baldfat 11y ago
  The reason why is systemd is MUCH easier to use and the majority of developers have jumped on board since it replaced a hack of a system. Just like PulseAudio has made audio life much better systemd has also done the same thing.
Esau 11y ago
Yeah, because if there's one thing we need, it's MORE systemd integration. At this point, they should just rename it svchost.exe.

by bg46z 11y ago

This is pretty exciting. There have been loads of stability issues in the past, and it's always nice to see those issues addressed. I like the systemd integration too, that's a nice touch.

LeoPanthera 11y ago

Is it usable without systemd? It seems like Linux is getting harder and harder to use without it, to the point where "A Linux system" is systemd.

simoncion 11y ago
> It seems like Linux is getting harder and harder to use without [systemd]... This Gentoo Linux user is getting along juuuuuust fine without systemd. :) Edit: To bring it on-topic: It's a damn shame that PA -apparently- doesn't let you set playback/record device preference lists that let you specify which of the potentially many sound devices in your system should be used when some or many of them are unavailable. It seems that KDE4 and -IIRC- 5 use Phonon to add this on top of PulseAudio. (Or, actually, they add this on top of whatever sound playback system you're using... whether it is JACK, ALSA, PA, or something else. I've never written software that interacts with Phonon, but -from an end-user perspective- it's pretty great.)
- djsumdog 11y ago
  Good to see another Gentoo user. I was avoiding PulseAudio on my desktop, but it's feels necessary on a laptop, especially if you use Bluetooth. I did have a lot of problems with distorted audio on Linux games, but "killall -9 pulseaudio" before starting a game (forcing it to respawn) usually fixes it.
  - eeZi 11y ago
    Fortunately, Gentoo works fine with systemd, too. It's a nice feature of Gentoo that one can choose - ChromeOS uses Upstart and CoreOS systemd (both of them notable Gentoo derivates).
  - keithpeter 11y ago
    Slackware -current now includes pulse audio because of a desire to upgrade Bluetooth packages. See the Jan 13th entry in the ChangeLog.txt http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386 http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386
  - yrro 11y ago
    Please file a bug report.
    - makomk 11y ago
      I've been having the same problem with the same solution, but it didn't seem worth dealing with the hassle of reporting a bug for something I had no way of reliably reproducing knowing it'd most likely just get closed or ignored because of that.
  - simoncion 11y ago
    > Good to see another Gentoo user. Hai! :D > I was avoiding PulseAudio on my desktop, but it's feels necessary on a laptop, especially if you use Bluetooth. You know, I was gonna say "But I had A2DP working JUST FINE with bluez-alsa, and JACK knows about anything that ALSA knows about!"... and then I started digging around and learned that bluez-alsa hasn't worked since BlueZ 4.x. :/ [0] Guess I have another project in my queue. :P Hope I can get it in-tree without too much hassle. [0] I guess that tells me how long it has been since I've paired a Bluetooth headset with my laptop! ;)
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      > Hope I can get it in-tree without too much hassle. Good luck, i can't say i have my hopes up.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        Oh, by in-tree, I mean "In the Gentoo Portage package tree.". Getting the work merged into Bluez proper would be nice, but I really don't care about that. :)
Isn0gud 11y ago
What is so bad about systemd?
- simoncion 11y ago
  If you're genuinely interested in some discussion pertaining to the answer to that question, use your favorite search engine to search HN for likely phrases and skim until you find some discussion with a significant volume of commentary. Because of its political nature, this is a topic that's best not discussed unless you have some very specific questions or observations, and you are already very well informed about the merits and faults of both the systemd project and most of the other pieces of software that provide similar functionality. :)
  - jnbiche 11y ago
    > the systemd project and most of the other pieces of software that provide similar functionality Agreed. Emphasis on pieces of software, plural.
- SFjulie1 11y ago
  It has a common point with systemd : the lead is Lennart Poettering. Sound on linux is a mess. And pulse audio is vastly blamed for it. Complex circonvoluted architecture that overpromised and under delivered.. The guy loves to brag about how he is the messiah of a problem and will fixt it, make galaxy like software that are unstable and leave a mess after his doing saying my job is done, let's work on another project where my genius is needed. But, after utterly messing up once, notably at the (lack of) design level, he has been entrusted to no overpromise again and make the ultimate revolution for the init process. A lot of coders did not believe in his repentance for the mess in pulse audio : he may be as arrogant as linus torvalds he is as smart and a good coder as rasmus lerdorf. The PID1 on linux is now known as a solar system of processes with nice chaotic trajectories and astronomers are seriously planning to use systemd alone as a nth body interaction simulator.. unexpected .
  - smt88 11y ago
    I switched from desktop Linux to Windows entirely because of Lennart Poettering. Audio was a complete disaster, as you mentioned. (This was only a few months ago.)
JoshTriplett 11y ago
Considering that the release notes mention " * OS X and NetBSD support improvements", fears of it only running on Linux systems, let alone only Linux systems with systemd, seem rather unwarranted.
igravious 11y ago
Please, can we not have yet another rehash of that discussion? It would appear because it runs on OSX and *BSD that it shouldn't require Systemd on Linux though lets check, shall we? So a quick download and ./configure --help show SYSTEMD_LIBS linker flags for SYSTEMD, overriding pkg-config so it's whatever pkg-config is set to.
- simoncion 11y ago
  > Please, can we not have yet another rehash of that discussion? I'm not sure what discussion you think we're having, but the conversation that was present ~four hours prior to your comment appears to be largely on-topic, informative, and civil. :)
  - baldfat 11y ago
    Call him a prophet because we are having the systemd conversation all over again :(
    - simoncion 11y ago
      Yeah. Thanks so much for not leaving well enough alone and contributing to that conversation. :(
      - baldfat 11y ago
        Sorry I always get that feeling of defending progress. Its like that bug in "Bugs Life" I just fly right into the light. https://youtu.be/vod9DL4IhBM https://youtu.be/vod9DL4IhBM
anonbanker 11y ago
Calculate linux use pulseaudio with OpenRC. I usually rip it out and replace with JACK (which is rock stable and far more robust than PA), but it definitely doesn't need systemd yet.
baldfat 11y ago
The reason why is systemd is MUCH easier to use and the majority of developers have jumped on board since it replaced a hack of a system. Just like PulseAudio has made audio life much better systemd has also done the same thing.

Esau 11y ago

Yeah, because if there's one thing we need, it's MORE systemd integration. At this point, they should just rename it svchost.exe.