5 ms·

PHP is sane?

by sker 17y ago

PHP is sane?

mseebach 17y ago
More sane than any proprietary language, yeah. And more accessible than C++.
- tghw 17y ago
  You're comparing apples an oranges. PHP is no more sane than classic ASP. They're both pretty awful.
  - brehaut 17y ago
    I think thats unfair. PHP sucks some hairy donkey's balls, but VBScript is significantly worse. Dim, Redim Preserve, ByRef, Arrays that are basicly C arrays (see also Redim), Ridiculous Object/Value dichotomy (for those that arent aware you need to use the Set keyword to assign an object to a variable, but not for a value. The distinction bleeds all over your code and makes things hurt) and friends are evil sons of bitches that don't belong in a scripting language.
    - voidpointer 17y ago
      Hello pot. This is kettle. You're black.
      - brehaut 17y ago
        Would you like to expand on your claim? Be quite clear that i dislike both languages. VBS is the worst of the two though.
  - wvenable 17y ago
    Classic ASP is whole class of awful all to itself. PHP has far more in common with other scripting languages than it does with Classic ASP. The fact that they both support embedding code into HTML is their only similarity.
  - mseebach 17y ago
    Wasabi >> Classic ASP, if that's what you're referring to. But it's a whole lot more, and on top of that it's proprietary. PHP isn't, and that alone makes it more sane.
mncaudill 17y ago
I'd say PHP is more sane from a business and coding standpoint. Need to find a PHP developer? No problem. Want a PHP IDE? No problem. A large community to handle bugs and any future development? Yes. It's obvious that wasabi has been good to Fog Creek, but that doesn't make it a sane decision, regardless of the quality of the syntax and semantics of the language itself.
- david 17y ago
  What does "sane" mean in this thread? I can't figure it out other than "something that makes sense to the poster". >> Need to find a PHP developer? No problem. Not being able to hire just anyone to code for you is a good thing just as much as it is bad. It means you're going to have some pretty bright people working for you, which apparently is something Fog Creek values and can afford to do. > Want a PHP IDE? No problem. Most hackers have their own preferred editors anyways, and Emacs/vi/etc work well with any language if that's the editor you're experienced with. >> A large community to handle bugs and any future development? Yes. Again, that's a hindrance just as much as it is a benefit. If you need to make a change or fix a bug in the language, you're going to have much better luck if you know a bunch of people who are intimately familiar with how that language works, especially if their right down the hall from you.
  - sanswork 17y ago
    In response to your first comment I think the idea that developers that don't use PHP are better or brighter is absurd. Not that it matters anyhow for most roles you neither need nor can afford to hire the best and brightest away from their current role which they probably love a lot(being the best gives you the ability to choose great places to work). So unless you're looking for a tech lead you're going to be looking for great, much better than average but not specifically the best and for those conditions PHP will give you a much larger developer base to choose from every day of the week. As for the last point I think you're really reaching here to find a negative. A large community to handle bugs a hindrance? Seriously? And your alternative ideal solution is some people down the hall in your office that know how to use the language well?

PHP is sane?

by sker 17y ago

PHP is sane?

mseebach 17y ago

More sane than any proprietary language, yeah. And more accessible than C++.

tghw 17y ago
You're comparing apples an oranges. PHP is no more sane than classic ASP. They're both pretty awful.
- brehaut 17y ago
  I think thats unfair. PHP sucks some hairy donkey's balls, but VBScript is significantly worse. Dim, Redim Preserve, ByRef, Arrays that are basicly C arrays (see also Redim), Ridiculous Object/Value dichotomy (for those that arent aware you need to use the Set keyword to assign an object to a variable, but not for a value. The distinction bleeds all over your code and makes things hurt) and friends are evil sons of bitches that don't belong in a scripting language.
  - voidpointer 17y ago
    Hello pot. This is kettle. You're black.
    - brehaut 17y ago
      Would you like to expand on your claim? Be quite clear that i dislike both languages. VBS is the worst of the two though.
- wvenable 17y ago
  Classic ASP is whole class of awful all to itself. PHP has far more in common with other scripting languages than it does with Classic ASP. The fact that they both support embedding code into HTML is their only similarity.
- mseebach 17y ago
  Wasabi >> Classic ASP, if that's what you're referring to. But it's a whole lot more, and on top of that it's proprietary. PHP isn't, and that alone makes it more sane.

mncaudill 17y ago

I'd say PHP is more sane from a business and coding standpoint. Need to find a PHP developer? No problem. Want a PHP IDE? No problem. A large community to handle bugs and any future development? Yes. It's obvious that wasabi has been good to Fog Creek, but that doesn't make it a sane decision, regardless of the quality of the syntax and semantics of the language itself.

david 17y ago
What does "sane" mean in this thread? I can't figure it out other than "something that makes sense to the poster". >> Need to find a PHP developer? No problem. Not being able to hire just anyone to code for you is a good thing just as much as it is bad. It means you're going to have some pretty bright people working for you, which apparently is something Fog Creek values and can afford to do. > Want a PHP IDE? No problem. Most hackers have their own preferred editors anyways, and Emacs/vi/etc work well with any language if that's the editor you're experienced with. >> A large community to handle bugs and any future development? Yes. Again, that's a hindrance just as much as it is a benefit. If you need to make a change or fix a bug in the language, you're going to have much better luck if you know a bunch of people who are intimately familiar with how that language works, especially if their right down the hall from you.
- sanswork 17y ago
  In response to your first comment I think the idea that developers that don't use PHP are better or brighter is absurd. Not that it matters anyhow for most roles you neither need nor can afford to hire the best and brightest away from their current role which they probably love a lot(being the best gives you the ability to choose great places to work). So unless you're looking for a tech lead you're going to be looking for great, much better than average but not specifically the best and for those conditions PHP will give you a much larger developer base to choose from every day of the week. As for the last point I think you're really reaching here to find a negative. A large community to handle bugs a hindrance? Seriously? And your alternative ideal solution is some people down the hall in your office that know how to use the language well?