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So you need good enough logs that you can debug production without ssh to production (since there is no ssh, bash, ps etc)? Don't we already have this?
by dustingetz 11y ago
So you need good enough logs that you can debug production without ssh to production (since there is no ssh, bash, ps etc)? Don't we already have this?
- cyphar 11y agoWhy do so many people on HN think that nothing but logs can allow you to debug very complicated systems? The only type of "log" which might actually help you is a coredump, but what if the bug isn't fatal? What if your software just sucks (is slow or returns an incorrect result)? How are logs going to help you there, for those cases you just need dynamic instrumentation to coerce the system to find out what it's doing at every level of the stack.
- dustingetz 11y agoHow about don't write shitty software. Just because joes flower shop wants shitty custom database software doesn't mean I can't push the state of art and what's possible.
- cyphar 11y ago> How about don't write shitty software. Just because joes flower shop wants shitty custom database software doesn't mean I can't push the state of art and what's possible. "I write perfect software, which will always either crash or run perfectly." Given the fact that runtimes like Python and Node have had problems in this field, I'm calling bullshit. But that glosses over the fact that you might need to run some software that you didn't write (shocker, I know). If that software has non-fatal failure modes, logs won't help you. Logs won't help you with most fatal failure modes anyway (you need coredumps in most hard cases). Thinking that "stop writing shitty software" is a solution to the existence of bugs is just harmful to anyone who has to manage your software. If you think your software had never failed, that's because the people debugging it didn't want you in the room at the time.