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Sigh, I believe the answer is "no". Cost is not the problem with tinkering. I don't think access to computing gizmos is an issue at all in the US. For me I surf

by zoidb 11y ago

Sigh, I believe the answer is "no". Cost is not the problem with tinkering. I don't think access to computing gizmos is an issue at all in the US. For me I surfed in on a wave of tinkering and innovation by building things that my friends were impressed by and played with (programming calculators, text adventure games, even some electronics). Where is it now? I'm not sure (and I would love to know) how kids these days are building things that are able to compete for valuable attention span. Especially if they are going head to head with psychologists who design smartphone games.

irremediable 11y ago
> Where is it now? I'm not sure (and I would love to know) how kids these days are building things that are able to compete for valuable attention span. I'd say it's videogames. I got into programming through glitching games, then scripting games, then programming games. I know a lot of other people my age (mid-20s) who had similar experiences. Look at kids making various contraptions in Minecraft -- and look at how many of them go into the modding scene. I don't think that tinkering experience has been lost; people just forget what a small fraction of the population was interested in this stuff in the first place.
- lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
  Continuing on your thought; one thing I've noticed is that, even being only a couple years removed from the "kids these days", it's hard to appreciate how ~big~ things like minecraft are. Talking with my older coworkers, the same spark the parent comment spoke of is now being channeled into these shared digital creative experiences.
- webjprgm 11y ago
  I know a 12 yo who made a simple game in Unity. I think he plays with making games in Python and Scratch too, though I haven't seen them. Tools change, but interested kids still find a way to tinker.
superuser2 11y ago
I think children having their own general purpose computing devices is pretty important. Time sharing and the obligation not to break "the family computer" make it pretty useless as a tinkering platform, unless your parents are technical and comfortable with it. The individual devices children own are compilation targets, maybe, but they can't run text editors and compilers. Cost of the actual computer is not the problem. All of these $50, $20, $5 computers conveniently ignore that fact that you also need $150+ for a monitor, USB hub, keyboard, mouse, WiFi adapter, etc. This quickly raises the price from "something a low-income family can easily spend on a child" to "no fucking way." I found OLPC a lot more compelling. Still, I'm thankful for cheap hardware on which to run pirate AirPlay targets and homebrew IP cameras :).
- Hupriene 11y ago
  > Cost of the actual computer is not the problem. All of these $50, $20, $5 computers conveniently ignore that fact that you also need $150+ for a monitor Chip has an answer to that.[1] Not sure whether it is really usable enough for kids to work on, but I'd did a lot of work on my TI calculator, which didn't even have a qwerty keyboard. [1] http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip
- webjprgm 11y ago
  I'm not sure about CHIP, but a RasberryPi can hook into our TV and I have several old USB keyboards and mice to plug into it. If you don't, you can get one for really cheap. It's the monitor that is most of the extra cost. (I also have a spare monitor, but I'm a computer guy so of course I have extra parts.) Anyway, if the idea is just to allow a kid to have their own computer to break/tinker with, then sharing the family TV to run it is OK. It doesn't solve the time-share issue. (I remember my little sister monopolizing the TV to watch Dumbo The Flying Elephant over and over again.)
- Roodgorf 11y ago
  > Time sharing and the obligation not to break "the family computer" make it pretty useless as a tinkering platform, unless your parents are technical and comfortable with it. I follow the logic here, and intuitively agree, but anecdotally it was almost the exact opposite experience that started my interest in computers. We got a computer mainly to help with personal accounting type things. Beyond what my mother knew of Excel, my parents were not at all technically savvy. Probably because of this (that is, that they didn't know how to restrict/follow what I was messing with) they gave me relatively free reign to tinker on our family computer from the age of about 8 on. After a few years I just fell into the de facto IT of the house. I wonder if the problem now is that computers are used for so much more by adults? As long as I could fix/hide whatever I broke before my parents needed to update their budget or check their email, hardly even a daily ritual at the time, I was in the clear.
27182818284 11y ago
>Sigh, I believe the answer is "no". Cost is not the problem with tinkering. More to this point, my first tinkering was on an outdated, free, hand-me-down 286 from a neighbor. It was enough, though, to probably set in motion what has become the majority of my income later in life by working in computers throughout the years

by zoidb 11y ago

irremediable 11y ago

> Where is it now? I'm not sure (and I would love to know) how kids these days are building things that are able to compete for valuable attention span. I'd say it's videogames. I got into programming through glitching games, then scripting games, then programming games. I know a lot of other people my age (mid-20s) who had similar experiences. Look at kids making various contraptions in Minecraft -- and look at how many of them go into the modding scene. I don't think that tinkering experience has been lost; people just forget what a small fraction of the population was interested in this stuff in the first place.

lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
Continuing on your thought; one thing I've noticed is that, even being only a couple years removed from the "kids these days", it's hard to appreciate how ~big~ things like minecraft are. Talking with my older coworkers, the same spark the parent comment spoke of is now being channeled into these shared digital creative experiences.
webjprgm 11y ago
I know a 12 yo who made a simple game in Unity. I think he plays with making games in Python and Scratch too, though I haven't seen them. Tools change, but interested kids still find a way to tinker.

superuser2 11y ago

I think children having their own general purpose computing devices is pretty important. Time sharing and the obligation not to break "the family computer" make it pretty useless as a tinkering platform, unless your parents are technical and comfortable with it. The individual devices children own are compilation targets, maybe, but they can't run text editors and compilers. Cost of the actual computer is not the problem. All of these $50, $20, $5 computers conveniently ignore that fact that you also need $150+ for a monitor, USB hub, keyboard, mouse, WiFi adapter, etc. This quickly raises the price from "something a low-income family can easily spend on a child" to "no fucking way." I found OLPC a lot more compelling. Still, I'm thankful for cheap hardware on which to run pirate AirPlay targets and homebrew IP cameras :).

Hupriene 11y ago
> Cost of the actual computer is not the problem. All of these $50, $20, $5 computers conveniently ignore that fact that you also need $150+ for a monitor Chip has an answer to that.[1] Not sure whether it is really usable enough for kids to work on, but I'd did a lot of work on my TI calculator, which didn't even have a qwerty keyboard. [1] http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip http://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip
webjprgm 11y ago
I'm not sure about CHIP, but a RasberryPi can hook into our TV and I have several old USB keyboards and mice to plug into it. If you don't, you can get one for really cheap. It's the monitor that is most of the extra cost. (I also have a spare monitor, but I'm a computer guy so of course I have extra parts.) Anyway, if the idea is just to allow a kid to have their own computer to break/tinker with, then sharing the family TV to run it is OK. It doesn't solve the time-share issue. (I remember my little sister monopolizing the TV to watch Dumbo The Flying Elephant over and over again.)
Roodgorf 11y ago
> Time sharing and the obligation not to break "the family computer" make it pretty useless as a tinkering platform, unless your parents are technical and comfortable with it. I follow the logic here, and intuitively agree, but anecdotally it was almost the exact opposite experience that started my interest in computers. We got a computer mainly to help with personal accounting type things. Beyond what my mother knew of Excel, my parents were not at all technically savvy. Probably because of this (that is, that they didn't know how to restrict/follow what I was messing with) they gave me relatively free reign to tinker on our family computer from the age of about 8 on. After a few years I just fell into the de facto IT of the house. I wonder if the problem now is that computers are used for so much more by adults? As long as I could fix/hide whatever I broke before my parents needed to update their budget or check their email, hardly even a daily ritual at the time, I was in the clear.

27182818284 11y ago

>Sigh, I believe the answer is "no". Cost is not the problem with tinkering. More to this point, my first tinkering was on an outdated, free, hand-me-down 286 from a neighbor. It was enough, though, to probably set in motion what has become the majority of my income later in life by working in computers throughout the years