4 ms·

great idea, but having an centralized service is risky. if they go away, you will not only have a 404 but a dns error. and while it's nice that they have a cont

by pcora 11y ago

great idea, but having an centralized service is risky. if they go away, you will not only have a 404 but a dns error. and while it's nice that they have a contingency plan, abide it can not be possible.

afandian 11y ago
There are things you can do to mitigate the risk of centralized infrastructure. This is a fascinating talk by Geoff Bilder at Crossref, that covers what the risks are and what, e.g. ORCID did to head off some of the potential issues: https://youtu.be/cyKBsKgA7eA?t=2126 https://youtu.be/cyKBsKgA7eA?t=2126 (starts at 35 minutes)
JackC 11y ago
Yeah, this is a basic problem with the web as it works now -- Perma's long-term storage can and will be decentralized behind the scenes, but control over DNS routing is inherently centralized. I don't really know a way around this. When a lawyer is reading a court decision that include a link, and the link is broken, showing them "(archived at perma GUID ABCD-1234)" won't mean a thing to them. Showing them "(archived at http://perma.cc/ABCD-1234)" http://perma.cc/ABCD-1234)" actually solves their problem.
- extra88 11y ago
  Think about how it works with other legal citations. "Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6)." means something to a lawyer and is irrespective of where they would physically find that court rule to read. An issue with Perma's id format is it doesn't contain anything to differentiate it from any other use of two sets of four uppercase letters or numbers separated by a dash, it's not "LAWCITE:A1C4-5F7H" it's just "A1C4-5F7H." The domain name could serve that purpose so wherever else Perma's content is stored, the route should contain perma.cc. So all of the following would have the same content, e.g.: http://perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://archive.org/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://archive.org/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://doomsday.preppers/rebuilding-America/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://doomsday.preppers/rebuilding-America/perma.cc/48VC-ZS... And in reference to the other comment, if the .cc TLD goes away for some reason, "perma.cc" could still remain a part of the URL even at the project's "home" site, e.g.: http://perma.law.harvard.edu/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.law.harvard.edu/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma-cc.com/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma-cc.com/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.mars/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.mars/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62
  - JackC 11y ago
    > Think about how it works with other legal citations. "Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6)." means something to a lawyer and is irrespective of where they would physically find that court rule to read. Yeah! When I first started up with Perma I advocated a really aggressive shift in how we cite websites, using something that looks a lot more like other legal citations. Maybe something like: Example Title, perma.cc/T75S-NF5K (<original domain>, <capture date>). ... where "perma.cc/####" can be treated as a URL if you like, but also just as a legal cite like "### U.S. ###". This looks so much nicer in legal citations. There's lots of interesting variations along these lines. Buuuut that's basically a non-starter for most of the legal profession (including courts and law reviews) that just want their citations to make sense to readers today. For now the Bluebook is recommending a much more verbose vendor-neutral "(archived at <url>)" citation format (with Perma as an example!), and we're happy with that.

by pcora 11y ago

afandian 11y ago

There are things you can do to mitigate the risk of centralized infrastructure. This is a fascinating talk by Geoff Bilder at Crossref, that covers what the risks are and what, e.g. ORCID did to head off some of the potential issues: https://youtu.be/cyKBsKgA7eA?t=2126 https://youtu.be/cyKBsKgA7eA?t=2126 (starts at 35 minutes)

JackC 11y ago

Yeah, this is a basic problem with the web as it works now -- Perma's long-term storage can and will be decentralized behind the scenes, but control over DNS routing is inherently centralized. I don't really know a way around this. When a lawyer is reading a court decision that include a link, and the link is broken, showing them "(archived at perma GUID ABCD-1234)" won't mean a thing to them. Showing them "(archived at http://perma.cc/ABCD-1234)" http://perma.cc/ABCD-1234)" actually solves their problem.

extra88 11y ago
Think about how it works with other legal citations. "Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6)." means something to a lawyer and is irrespective of where they would physically find that court rule to read. An issue with Perma's id format is it doesn't contain anything to differentiate it from any other use of two sets of four uppercase letters or numbers separated by a dash, it's not "LAWCITE:A1C4-5F7H" it's just "A1C4-5F7H." The domain name could serve that purpose so wherever else Perma's content is stored, the route should contain perma.cc. So all of the following would have the same content, e.g.: http://perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://archive.org/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://archive.org/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://doomsday.preppers/rebuilding-America/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://doomsday.preppers/rebuilding-America/perma.cc/48VC-ZS... And in reference to the other comment, if the .cc TLD goes away for some reason, "perma.cc" could still remain a part of the URL even at the project's "home" site, e.g.: http://perma.law.harvard.edu/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.law.harvard.edu/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma-cc.com/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma-cc.com/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.mars/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62 http://perma.mars/perma.cc/48VC-ZS62
- JackC 11y ago
  > Think about how it works with other legal citations. "Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6)." means something to a lawyer and is irrespective of where they would physically find that court rule to read. Yeah! When I first started up with Perma I advocated a really aggressive shift in how we cite websites, using something that looks a lot more like other legal citations. Maybe something like: Example Title, perma.cc/T75S-NF5K (<original domain>, <capture date>). ... where "perma.cc/####" can be treated as a URL if you like, but also just as a legal cite like "### U.S. ###". This looks so much nicer in legal citations. There's lots of interesting variations along these lines. Buuuut that's basically a non-starter for most of the legal profession (including courts and law reviews) that just want their citations to make sense to readers today. For now the Bluebook is recommending a much more verbose vendor-neutral "(archived at <url>)" citation format (with Perma as an example!), and we're happy with that.