3 ms·

OTOH we have the issue of smart people thinking they have carte blanche to dictate the correctness of other people's preferences.

KirinDave 17y ago
That is not a trait of "smart" people, that is a trait of "assholes." You need not be smart to be an asshole. You might find "smart" people are particularly well equipped to wage effective verbal arguments, which can be frustrating. But some of the biggest prescriptivist assholes are incredibly stupid people. My favorite example is the Westboro Baptist Cult. These people actively eschew any kind of real education, history, science, or even causality. And yet they protest everyone's activities ceaselessly with offensive signs. Surely the WBC members think "they have carte blanche to dictate the correctness of other people's preferences." But are they "smart"? Surely not.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  the difference is that smart people can cloak such proscriptions in pseudo science (see: happiness research) and a lot of people don't have the expertise to debunk them. edit: jerf13 is making this point better than I am.
  - KirinDave 17y ago
    > the difference is that smart people can cloak such proscriptions in pseudo science (see: happiness research)" How is that any different from cloaking the prescriptions (or proscriptions, I suppose) in biblical claptrap? Or historical or cultural nonsense? A lot of people believe things are in the bible that are actually not there, at best. Why? Their minister told them. I was one of these people in my youth; I assure you it happens. Personally, I think this is a classic example of anti-intellectualism. A lot of people get angry arguing with "smart" people because they seem to have "an answer for everything." This is far more infuriating to deal with than the relatively static arguments of Wu Proponents or Creationists, who simply reiterate the same tired nonsense over and over until you can simply ignore it the way you do any droning, repetitious sound.
    - nazgulnarsil 17y ago
      you honestly don't see a difference between something that is backed up by "well that's what we believe" and "I have compiled statistics that prove my point!". I have the training to debunk their nonsense, but the vast majority don't. how many crap medical studies come out each year due to bad statistical methods combined with FDA corruption? this has a much bigger impact on the average person's life than religious nuts spouting off. The authority of the FDA and pharmas derives from their panels of scientific experts.
      - KirinDave 17y ago
        > you honestly don't see a difference between something that is backed up by "well that's what we believe" and "I have compiled statistics that prove my point!". I have the training to debunk their nonsense, but the vast majority don't. You left out the part after "well that's what we believe" where they say "because...". Usually that's what gets people. And I grew up around people from whom the existence of math and statistics for something almost guarantee'd they dispute it. Perhaps you find the scientific claptrap more ugly because you understand it better, but science and pseudoscience are far from the biggest masters of people's lives in the wide world. > how many crap medical studies come out each year due to bad statistical methods combined with FDA corruption? this has a much bigger impact on the average person's life than religious nuts spouting off. There are these countries–incredibly populous countries–where one dude spouting off religious nonsense is the literal law of the land. You disagree? You die or are imprisoned indefinitely.
- blasdel 17y ago
  The WBC are professional legal trolls -- the original point of their asshole activities was to bait the authorities into doing something illegal, so they can sue for damages. They misjudged how far they could go when they started picketing soldier's funerals, and got cases brought against them instead and lost.

KirinDave 17y ago

That is not a trait of "smart" people, that is a trait of "assholes." You need not be smart to be an asshole. You might find "smart" people are particularly well equipped to wage effective verbal arguments, which can be frustrating. But some of the biggest prescriptivist assholes are incredibly stupid people. My favorite example is the Westboro Baptist Cult. These people actively eschew any kind of real education, history, science, or even causality. And yet they protest everyone's activities ceaselessly with offensive signs. Surely the WBC members think "they have carte blanche to dictate the correctness of other people's preferences." But are they "smart"? Surely not.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago
the difference is that smart people can cloak such proscriptions in pseudo science (see: happiness research) and a lot of people don't have the expertise to debunk them. edit: jerf13 is making this point better than I am.
- KirinDave 17y ago
  > the difference is that smart people can cloak such proscriptions in pseudo science (see: happiness research)" How is that any different from cloaking the prescriptions (or proscriptions, I suppose) in biblical claptrap? Or historical or cultural nonsense? A lot of people believe things are in the bible that are actually not there, at best. Why? Their minister told them. I was one of these people in my youth; I assure you it happens. Personally, I think this is a classic example of anti-intellectualism. A lot of people get angry arguing with "smart" people because they seem to have "an answer for everything." This is far more infuriating to deal with than the relatively static arguments of Wu Proponents or Creationists, who simply reiterate the same tired nonsense over and over until you can simply ignore it the way you do any droning, repetitious sound.
  - nazgulnarsil 17y ago
    you honestly don't see a difference between something that is backed up by "well that's what we believe" and "I have compiled statistics that prove my point!". I have the training to debunk their nonsense, but the vast majority don't. how many crap medical studies come out each year due to bad statistical methods combined with FDA corruption? this has a much bigger impact on the average person's life than religious nuts spouting off. The authority of the FDA and pharmas derives from their panels of scientific experts.
    - KirinDave 17y ago
      > you honestly don't see a difference between something that is backed up by "well that's what we believe" and "I have compiled statistics that prove my point!". I have the training to debunk their nonsense, but the vast majority don't. You left out the part after "well that's what we believe" where they say "because...". Usually that's what gets people. And I grew up around people from whom the existence of math and statistics for something almost guarantee'd they dispute it. Perhaps you find the scientific claptrap more ugly because you understand it better, but science and pseudoscience are far from the biggest masters of people's lives in the wide world. > how many crap medical studies come out each year due to bad statistical methods combined with FDA corruption? this has a much bigger impact on the average person's life than religious nuts spouting off. There are these countries–incredibly populous countries–where one dude spouting off religious nonsense is the literal law of the land. You disagree? You die or are imprisoned indefinitely.
blasdel 17y ago
The WBC are professional legal trolls -- the original point of their asshole activities was to bait the authorities into doing something illegal, so they can sue for damages. They misjudged how far they could go when they started picketing soldier's funerals, and got cases brought against them instead and lost.