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I don't think it was nearly as clear back then that this is how things would play out. Sun still controlled its own destiny when Android was nascent and it's my

I don't think it was nearly as clear back then that this is how things would play out. Sun still controlled its own destiny when Android was nascent and it's my understanding that while Sun wasn't exactly thrilled about them building on Apache Harmony / Dalvik, etc., they weren't going to sue them over it either. Motorola on the other hand was literally telling Google and Wall Street that they were ready to go nuclear on other Android ODMs if someone didn't make them an offer (because their actual operating business wasn't cutting it anymore)

pjmlp 11y ago
Sun wanted to sue, but lacked the money to do so. Check the blogs of some ex-employees like Gosling.
- sangnoir 11y ago
  The perspective in Sun was not unanimous. Frankly, I'll take Jonathan Schwartz' blog (CEO) over Gosling's.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    So it is that time of the year again for me to quote Gosling: "We were all really disturbed, even Jonathan: he just decided to put on a happy face and tried to turn lemons into lemonade, which annoyed a lot of folks at Sun." Source: http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle_v http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle... But believe on whatever Google sells.
    - sangnoir 11y ago
      Are we playing dueling quotes? He is what Jonathan had to say for himself: "I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of others from Sun in offering my heartfelt congratulations to Google on the announcement of their new Java/Linux phone platform, Android. Congratulations!" source: http://web.archive.org/web/20101023072550/http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/congratulations_google http://web.archive.org/web/20101023072550/http://blogs.sun.c... >But believe on whatever Google sells Because if I disagree with you, I must be drinking Google's coolaid, right? Edit: before you say the quote was part of "putting on a happy face", maybe have a look at what he had to say when he was called as Google's witness in Oracle v Google. It is also telling that he was called in by Google, rather than Oracle.
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        > Because if I disagree with you, I must be drinking Google's coolaid, right? Well on HN, it seems Google cannot do no wrong and Oracle is the devil, regardless of them both being corporations and not really persons. > before you say the quote was part of "putting on a happy face", maybe have a look at what he had to say when he was called as Google's witness in Oracle v Google. It is also telling that he was called in by Google, rather than Oracle. 1 - Yes it was part of "putting on a happy face" 2 - Usually when one gets called to the court, it is not easy to say no, regardless which side puts your name on. So Google lawyers just were faster than Oracle's. 3 - Ah but he testified on court. Well, having been born in a country just getting of dictatorship and where corruption is part of daily life, I don't believe people always "tell the truth and only the truth" when at court. The fact is that Google forked and frozed the Java eco-system. Now in 2016 we are stuck with a Java 6 and a half, with no future in sight for newer versions. With the community coming up with hacks to try to use newer language features. Java 9 and 10+ will bring major language features making it even worse to keep Java applications portable between the real Java and Android Java. Google just managed to do what Microsoft failed at, and yet Google gets the brownie points.
        sangnoir 11y ago
        >Well on HN, it seems Google cannot do no wrong Is this HN pre-Reader shutdown or post-Reader shutdown? "How soon will Google shutdown awesome product X?" is practically a meme on HN. Not that HN is a homogenous blob anyways. >The fact is that Google forked and frozed the Java eco-system. Now in 2016 we are stuck with a Java 6 and a half No, that was IBM. As I recall, Apache Harmony[1] was already in existence by the time Google adopted it - they weren't the 'forkers'; they merely popularized it. IBM was Harmony's main benefactor - IBM and Sun were Java frenemies at the time. My favorite moment of the tiff was IBM's delightfully subversive naming of the "Eclipse" project. >Google just managed to do what Microsoft failed at Had I mentioned that before the Sun purchase, Oracle also supported[2] Apache Harmony? Sun was steadfastly refusing[3] to provide the TCK needed for Harmony to be officially certified as 'Java' That said, I'll take Java 6.5 over Java ME any day. Sun was absolutely clueless on mobile, and ME was a very bad idea and a terrible platform to develop on. 1. http://web.archive.org/web/20061208140800/http://harmony.apache.org/faq.html http://web.archive.org/web/20061208140800/http://harmony.apa... 2. https://blogs.oracle.com/dagastine/entry/apache_harmony_thanks_for_the https://blogs.oracle.com/dagastine/entry/apache_harmony_than... 3. http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletterfaq.html http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletterfaq.html

pjmlp 11y ago

Sun wanted to sue, but lacked the money to do so. Check the blogs of some ex-employees like Gosling.

sangnoir 11y ago
The perspective in Sun was not unanimous. Frankly, I'll take Jonathan Schwartz' blog (CEO) over Gosling's.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  So it is that time of the year again for me to quote Gosling: "We were all really disturbed, even Jonathan: he just decided to put on a happy face and tried to turn lemons into lemonade, which annoyed a lot of folks at Sun." Source: http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle_v http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle... But believe on whatever Google sells.
  - sangnoir 11y ago
    Are we playing dueling quotes? He is what Jonathan had to say for himself: "I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of others from Sun in offering my heartfelt congratulations to Google on the announcement of their new Java/Linux phone platform, Android. Congratulations!" source: http://web.archive.org/web/20101023072550/http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/congratulations_google http://web.archive.org/web/20101023072550/http://blogs.sun.c... >But believe on whatever Google sells Because if I disagree with you, I must be drinking Google's coolaid, right? Edit: before you say the quote was part of "putting on a happy face", maybe have a look at what he had to say when he was called as Google's witness in Oracle v Google. It is also telling that he was called in by Google, rather than Oracle.
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      > Because if I disagree with you, I must be drinking Google's coolaid, right? Well on HN, it seems Google cannot do no wrong and Oracle is the devil, regardless of them both being corporations and not really persons. > before you say the quote was part of "putting on a happy face", maybe have a look at what he had to say when he was called as Google's witness in Oracle v Google. It is also telling that he was called in by Google, rather than Oracle. 1 - Yes it was part of "putting on a happy face" 2 - Usually when one gets called to the court, it is not easy to say no, regardless which side puts your name on. So Google lawyers just were faster than Oracle's. 3 - Ah but he testified on court. Well, having been born in a country just getting of dictatorship and where corruption is part of daily life, I don't believe people always "tell the truth and only the truth" when at court. The fact is that Google forked and frozed the Java eco-system. Now in 2016 we are stuck with a Java 6 and a half, with no future in sight for newer versions. With the community coming up with hacks to try to use newer language features. Java 9 and 10+ will bring major language features making it even worse to keep Java applications portable between the real Java and Android Java. Google just managed to do what Microsoft failed at, and yet Google gets the brownie points.
      - sangnoir 11y ago
        >Well on HN, it seems Google cannot do no wrong Is this HN pre-Reader shutdown or post-Reader shutdown? "How soon will Google shutdown awesome product X?" is practically a meme on HN. Not that HN is a homogenous blob anyways. >The fact is that Google forked and frozed the Java eco-system. Now in 2016 we are stuck with a Java 6 and a half No, that was IBM. As I recall, Apache Harmony[1] was already in existence by the time Google adopted it - they weren't the 'forkers'; they merely popularized it. IBM was Harmony's main benefactor - IBM and Sun were Java frenemies at the time. My favorite moment of the tiff was IBM's delightfully subversive naming of the "Eclipse" project. >Google just managed to do what Microsoft failed at Had I mentioned that before the Sun purchase, Oracle also supported[2] Apache Harmony? Sun was steadfastly refusing[3] to provide the TCK needed for Harmony to be officially certified as 'Java' That said, I'll take Java 6.5 over Java ME any day. Sun was absolutely clueless on mobile, and ME was a very bad idea and a terrible platform to develop on. 1. http://web.archive.org/web/20061208140800/http://harmony.apache.org/faq.html http://web.archive.org/web/20061208140800/http://harmony.apa... 2. https://blogs.oracle.com/dagastine/entry/apache_harmony_thanks_for_the https://blogs.oracle.com/dagastine/entry/apache_harmony_than... 3. http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletterfaq.html http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletterfaq.html