11 ms·

It's interesting that it describes Silicon Valley as being too white, when it seems like there are quite a few Asians. Even working elsewhere, a high percentage

by gtk40 11y ago

It's interesting that it describes Silicon Valley as being too white, when it seems like there are quite a few Asians. Even working elsewhere, a high percentage of our programmers are Asian, higher than the metro's demographics would suggest.

HelloNurse 11y ago
For the purpose of this article, they count as white. According to a quoted student (around 1/3 of the text), Silicon Valley is "a startlingly homogeneous culture, made up of white and Asian people who “like Star Wars and stuff like Pokémon.”"
- scarmig 11y ago
  Oh yes, that homogeneous Asian culture, comprising 4 billion people who all speak the same language and eat the same food and watch the same TV shows. They're all the same!
  - pacala 11y ago
    To be fair, that homogenous white European culture, with about 50 countries, 23 official languages in EU, 225 indigenous languages in whole of Europe, and every valley with its own, sometimes quite distinct, dialect and traditions. Here are some European dialect maps: http://i.imgur.com/9btMHIT.png http://i.imgur.com/9btMHIT.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Continental_West_Germanic_languages.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Continen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_dialects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_dialects https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Polska-dialekty_wg_Urba%C5%84czyka.PNG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Polska-d... etc/und so weiter/and so on/et ainsi de suite/...
    - pc86 11y ago
      I get your point but I do think that "European culture" (that sounds strange to my American ears as I typically think of the individual nations, not Europe as a whole) is more homogeneous than Asian culture. Not that it is homogeneous, just closer on the spectrum.
      - scarmig 11y ago
        Isn't it strange though that we agglomerate all of Asia into one, when it has two constituent parts that are larger than all of Europe combined, and with another billion or two spread out among a bunch of other smaller countries (the 8th most populous of which being larger than the most populous country in Europe)? Hell, if Germany was a province of China, it'd barely crack the top five in population. Spain wouldn't even crack the top 10. West Bengal in India would be the largest country in Europe, and it's only the fourth largest state. UP is twice its size.
        autoreleasepool 11y ago
        > Hell, if Germany was a province of China, it'd barely crack the top five in population Wow. This completely blew my mind. It's incredibly ignorant how we (Americans) lump the provinces, languages, cultures, and 55 ethnicities[0] of China into Chinese people, and then lump Chinese people into Asians. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China
  - HelloNurse 11y ago
    Homogeneous if you divide society into "black people" vs. "everybody else" (or possibly "black people" vs. "white oppressors and their friends/wannabes/bootlickers/slaves of assorted ethnicity, including black traitors"). Actual Asian culture and other real diversities are completely out of the picture.
pmorici 11y ago
"it struck her as a startlingly homogeneous culture, made up of white and Asian people who “like Star Wars and stuff like Pokémon.” When companies began to visit Howard, they’d boast about having on-site playground equipment and volleyball courts—not the kind of thing Jones or her friends got excited about. “Slides are not really appealing,” she says. “There are not a lot of people of color in the Valley—and that, by itself, makes it kind of unwelcoming." I found the above passage strange. Within the same paragraph they talk with one student who says it is all white and asian and then in the next sentence the same student says there aren't many "people of color" in the valley. What are asians if not people of color.
- tomp 11y ago
  It often seems like the people writing this articles don't realize that preferring your own race is racism, no matter what race that is. If she feels that she doesn't fit in because there aren't enough people like her (black), that's just as racist as white people not wanting to hang out with blacks because they're not white.
  - golergka 11y ago
    Haven't you heard that racism = power + prejudice, so black people by definition can't be racist because they don't have power? (This is not an opinion that I agree with, but a lot of people actually think that way).
    - tomp 11y ago
      Thank god Obama isn't really black. Sarcasm aside, a lot of people believe whatever serves them better. When they realised that "racism = discrimination" wan't enough to let them achieve their goals, they changed the definition to "racism = discrimination + power". Or, us geeks only became "patriarchal opressors of minorities" when non-geeks realized that the smart kids that got bullied at school were becoming really rich.
    - mafribe 11y ago
      I'm not sure they deep down believe it. It's a rhetorical technique of frame shifting that has been quite successful, and allows some people to avoid facing their own racism. Since it works, why not continue using it? I have found a near perfect antidote: I point out that the USA is the world's most powerful nation (I'm from a small weak nation that has historically been trashed a lot). So, I continue: are you saying that only Americans can be racist, for they are so powerful? Nobody that I threw that at has been able to recover, they stutter, stumble, flail their arms, start to sweat and change the subject.
MollyR 11y ago
Yea. I don't like the way they use it. Asians and Indians get considered white if they don't fit in the specific narrative, an author wants to tell. I also don't like the idea, that liking pokemon or star wars makes you "white". There is something wrong with this,I can't seem to put into words.
- PaulHoule 11y ago
  Wasn't the hero of the last Star Wars movies black?
  - kazinator 11y ago
    Also, like, have you noticed the president of the United States?
  - wooger 11y ago
    The hero is a white woman - Finn is a bumbling sidekick.
    - xyzzy4 11y ago
      I agree. Finn is like the new Jar Jar
      - gknoy 11y ago
        Finn is nothing like Jar Jar. Finn made me smile and root for him every time I saw him on screen. He was awkward at times (hey, not much social interaction since he was a ST from early childhood), but his heart was always in the right place. I smile when I think of his character, and look forward to seeing him in the next part of the story, EVEN if he's not a Jedi. Jar-Jar makes me cringe when I hear him or look at him move. (That's saying a lot considering how bad the writing was for Anakin, IMO.) Jar Jar's purpose seemed to be the Comic Relief, whereas Finn has a much bigger and better-integrated role.
        11y ago
fennecfoxen 11y ago
> quite a few Asians Yes, especially programmers from India - typically not quite as dark-skinned as African-Americans, but pretty close, and many of them have a thick accent, too.
dokument 11y ago
The 2015 demographic supports your claim. %36 White (non-hispanic), %31 Asian (non-hispanic) [https://www.jointventure.org/images/stories/pdf/index2015.pdf https://www.jointventure.org/images/stories/pdf/index2015.pd...]
AndrewKemendo 11y ago
White is a class, not a race. For example Irish people weren't considered white until they gained significant economic power. [1] Interestingly enough it was somewhat at the expense of Black Americans at the time. Today, Blacks have significant economic and political power, yet only a handful have achieved "white" status and they are almost all politicians (Pres. Obama) and military leaders (Colin Powell). [1]https://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/white13.htm https://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/white13.htm
vox_mollis 11y ago
Yes, and when you break down the "white" demographic, you'll find yourself surprised at the rather high representation of Ashkenazis.
theorique 11y ago
I found that pretty disturbing - right near the start was the claim that Silicon Valley was "too white". I thought the article was supposed to be about efforts made to empower blacks, but when the writer drops a phrase like that, it's hard to avoid concluding that the efforts are aimed at removing whites. He could simply have said "not black enough" or "missing black workers" or something similar. Why attack white people?

by gtk40 11y ago

HelloNurse 11y ago

For the purpose of this article, they count as white. According to a quoted student (around 1/3 of the text), Silicon Valley is "a startlingly homogeneous culture, made up of white and Asian people who “like Star Wars and stuff like Pokémon.”"

scarmig 11y ago
Oh yes, that homogeneous Asian culture, comprising 4 billion people who all speak the same language and eat the same food and watch the same TV shows. They're all the same!
- pacala 11y ago
  To be fair, that homogenous white European culture, with about 50 countries, 23 official languages in EU, 225 indigenous languages in whole of Europe, and every valley with its own, sometimes quite distinct, dialect and traditions. Here are some European dialect maps: http://i.imgur.com/9btMHIT.png http://i.imgur.com/9btMHIT.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Continental_West_Germanic_languages.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Continen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_dialects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_dialects https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Polska-dialekty_wg_Urba%C5%84czyka.PNG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Polska-d... etc/und so weiter/and so on/et ainsi de suite/...
  - pc86 11y ago
    I get your point but I do think that "European culture" (that sounds strange to my American ears as I typically think of the individual nations, not Europe as a whole) is more homogeneous than Asian culture. Not that it is homogeneous, just closer on the spectrum.
    - scarmig 11y ago
      Isn't it strange though that we agglomerate all of Asia into one, when it has two constituent parts that are larger than all of Europe combined, and with another billion or two spread out among a bunch of other smaller countries (the 8th most populous of which being larger than the most populous country in Europe)? Hell, if Germany was a province of China, it'd barely crack the top five in population. Spain wouldn't even crack the top 10. West Bengal in India would be the largest country in Europe, and it's only the fourth largest state. UP is twice its size.
      - autoreleasepool 11y ago
        > Hell, if Germany was a province of China, it'd barely crack the top five in population Wow. This completely blew my mind. It's incredibly ignorant how we (Americans) lump the provinces, languages, cultures, and 55 ethnicities[0] of China into Chinese people, and then lump Chinese people into Asians. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China
- HelloNurse 11y ago
  Homogeneous if you divide society into "black people" vs. "everybody else" (or possibly "black people" vs. "white oppressors and their friends/wannabes/bootlickers/slaves of assorted ethnicity, including black traitors"). Actual Asian culture and other real diversities are completely out of the picture.

pmorici 11y ago

"it struck her as a startlingly homogeneous culture, made up of white and Asian people who “like Star Wars and stuff like Pokémon.” When companies began to visit Howard, they’d boast about having on-site playground equipment and volleyball courts—not the kind of thing Jones or her friends got excited about. “Slides are not really appealing,” she says. “There are not a lot of people of color in the Valley—and that, by itself, makes it kind of unwelcoming." I found the above passage strange. Within the same paragraph they talk with one student who says it is all white and asian and then in the next sentence the same student says there aren't many "people of color" in the valley. What are asians if not people of color.

tomp 11y ago
It often seems like the people writing this articles don't realize that preferring your own race is racism, no matter what race that is. If she feels that she doesn't fit in because there aren't enough people like her (black), that's just as racist as white people not wanting to hang out with blacks because they're not white.
- golergka 11y ago
  Haven't you heard that racism = power + prejudice, so black people by definition can't be racist because they don't have power? (This is not an opinion that I agree with, but a lot of people actually think that way).
  - tomp 11y ago
    Thank god Obama isn't really black. Sarcasm aside, a lot of people believe whatever serves them better. When they realised that "racism = discrimination" wan't enough to let them achieve their goals, they changed the definition to "racism = discrimination + power". Or, us geeks only became "patriarchal opressors of minorities" when non-geeks realized that the smart kids that got bullied at school were becoming really rich.
  - mafribe 11y ago
    I'm not sure they deep down believe it. It's a rhetorical technique of frame shifting that has been quite successful, and allows some people to avoid facing their own racism. Since it works, why not continue using it? I have found a near perfect antidote: I point out that the USA is the world's most powerful nation (I'm from a small weak nation that has historically been trashed a lot). So, I continue: are you saying that only Americans can be racist, for they are so powerful? Nobody that I threw that at has been able to recover, they stutter, stumble, flail their arms, start to sweat and change the subject.

MollyR 11y ago

Yea. I don't like the way they use it. Asians and Indians get considered white if they don't fit in the specific narrative, an author wants to tell. I also don't like the idea, that liking pokemon or star wars makes you "white". There is something wrong with this,I can't seem to put into words.

PaulHoule 11y ago
Wasn't the hero of the last Star Wars movies black?
- kazinator 11y ago
  Also, like, have you noticed the president of the United States?
- wooger 11y ago
  The hero is a white woman - Finn is a bumbling sidekick.
  - xyzzy4 11y ago
    I agree. Finn is like the new Jar Jar
    - gknoy 11y ago
      Finn is nothing like Jar Jar. Finn made me smile and root for him every time I saw him on screen. He was awkward at times (hey, not much social interaction since he was a ST from early childhood), but his heart was always in the right place. I smile when I think of his character, and look forward to seeing him in the next part of the story, EVEN if he's not a Jedi. Jar-Jar makes me cringe when I hear him or look at him move. (That's saying a lot considering how bad the writing was for Anakin, IMO.) Jar Jar's purpose seemed to be the Comic Relief, whereas Finn has a much bigger and better-integrated role.
      - 11y ago

fennecfoxen 11y ago

> quite a few Asians Yes, especially programmers from India - typically not quite as dark-skinned as African-Americans, but pretty close, and many of them have a thick accent, too.

dokument 11y ago

The 2015 demographic supports your claim. %36 White (non-hispanic), %31 Asian (non-hispanic) [https://www.jointventure.org/images/stories/pdf/index2015.pdf https://www.jointventure.org/images/stories/pdf/index2015.pd...]

AndrewKemendo 11y ago

White is a class, not a race. For example Irish people weren't considered white until they gained significant economic power. [1] Interestingly enough it was somewhat at the expense of Black Americans at the time. Today, Blacks have significant economic and political power, yet only a handful have achieved "white" status and they are almost all politicians (Pres. Obama) and military leaders (Colin Powell). [1]https://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/white13.htm https://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/white13.htm

vox_mollis 11y ago

Yes, and when you break down the "white" demographic, you'll find yourself surprised at the rather high representation of Ashkenazis.

theorique 11y ago

I found that pretty disturbing - right near the start was the claim that Silicon Valley was "too white". I thought the article was supposed to be about efforts made to empower blacks, but when the writer drops a phrase like that, it's hard to avoid concluding that the efforts are aimed at removing whites. He could simply have said "not black enough" or "missing black workers" or something similar. Why attack white people?