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I find it difficult to believe that compared to cities of similar size and population density that New York citizens have a greater need for cars. The other sim

by csydas 11y ago

I find it difficult to believe that compared to cities of similar size and population density that New York citizens have a greater need for cars. The other similarly sized/populous cities all rely far more heavily on mass transit than New Yorkers appear to, many of the cities that are more populated/larger than New York also are far more mass-transit focused. (Not to say that cars/congestion issues do no exist in said cities, it's just that a greater % of the population rides instead of drives) What about New York makes it so different that driving is an absolute necessity as opposed to say, London? And what creates the need for ownership as opposed to a fleet of automated cars handling the movement around the city? I can envision how a car might be important for occasional living errands, like groceries, etc., but car ownership as a need? Could not the majority of New Yorker needs be filled by either street services like Car2Go/Zipcar or by a fleet of summonable self-driving cars?

ars 11y ago
You do know self driving cars don't actually exist yet? When they do we can make changes, but don't start getting rid of parking ahead of time. New York attracts workers from all over, many from places without trains etc. London is also jam packed, I'm not sure it's any different.
- csydas 11y ago
  Yes...I'm not sure why you would think I suggested otherwise. There's no reason that the preparation can't start happening sooner, especially since an intermediary step towards self-driving cars exists and that's car share fleets. The whole point of self-driving cars is less about the tech itself and more about the cultural shift that it permits. Parts of that shift can be happening now - the problems with parking, congestion, costs of road maintenance, car accidents, and everything can be addressed and affected now. The proposed changes work just as well for a fleet of shared cars as they do for self-driving. London's population density is far less than that of NYC, with London having nearly twice the total area and nearly half the population density. My reason in mentioning the density is that even though London does have a large car population, far more people take transit in a place that has a larger population and a larger area. NYC, which is smaller and more population dense, should see its citizens having easier access to essential stores and location just due to proximity, where as a London citizen may need to travel considerably further.
  - ars 11y ago
    > There's no reason that the preparation can't start happening sooner There is a very good reason. Without the actual cars the preparation makes things worse for everyone. So why do it? It's like saying "I'm going to get a bike to go to work, so I better stop driving now, even though I don't actually have a way to go there." On top of that, despite all the excitement in the tech field it'll actually be many many decades before general purpose self driving cars exist. We don't need 30 years of preparation. At first they will only be used on long distance highway trips, with specially prepared and marked roads, with the human taking over for city driving and for roads not prepared. But these preparations are about city driving, which won't be automatic for a very very very long time. (How does a self driving car, without true AI, know what to do when there is an illegally parked car in the road? Or a stopped garbage truck, and the works are waving you to go around them?) > NYC, which is smaller and more population dense The greater NYC area is not smaller than London. People come from a hundred miles away, every day, to work there. Are you focused excessively on people living in Manhattan? They already take public transportation.

by csydas 11y ago

ars 11y ago

You do know self driving cars don't actually exist yet? When they do we can make changes, but don't start getting rid of parking ahead of time. New York attracts workers from all over, many from places without trains etc. London is also jam packed, I'm not sure it's any different.

csydas 11y ago
Yes...I'm not sure why you would think I suggested otherwise. There's no reason that the preparation can't start happening sooner, especially since an intermediary step towards self-driving cars exists and that's car share fleets. The whole point of self-driving cars is less about the tech itself and more about the cultural shift that it permits. Parts of that shift can be happening now - the problems with parking, congestion, costs of road maintenance, car accidents, and everything can be addressed and affected now. The proposed changes work just as well for a fleet of shared cars as they do for self-driving. London's population density is far less than that of NYC, with London having nearly twice the total area and nearly half the population density. My reason in mentioning the density is that even though London does have a large car population, far more people take transit in a place that has a larger population and a larger area. NYC, which is smaller and more population dense, should see its citizens having easier access to essential stores and location just due to proximity, where as a London citizen may need to travel considerably further.
- ars 11y ago
  > There's no reason that the preparation can't start happening sooner There is a very good reason. Without the actual cars the preparation makes things worse for everyone. So why do it? It's like saying "I'm going to get a bike to go to work, so I better stop driving now, even though I don't actually have a way to go there." On top of that, despite all the excitement in the tech field it'll actually be many many decades before general purpose self driving cars exist. We don't need 30 years of preparation. At first they will only be used on long distance highway trips, with specially prepared and marked roads, with the human taking over for city driving and for roads not prepared. But these preparations are about city driving, which won't be automatic for a very very very long time. (How does a self driving car, without true AI, know what to do when there is an illegally parked car in the road? Or a stopped garbage truck, and the works are waving you to go around them?) > NYC, which is smaller and more population dense The greater NYC area is not smaller than London. People come from a hundred miles away, every day, to work there. Are you focused excessively on people living in Manhattan? They already take public transportation.