5 ms·

From Candy to Juleps, Persians Left Imprint on Many Edible Delights

45 points by Thevet 11y ago

geff82 11y ago
Persian is a beautiful language. Especially when spoken by females, it sounds so soft and precious (ok, in my mind there are "man"-languages and "female"-languages, depending on which sex sounds nicer when using them)
pm90 11y ago
Another interesting tidbit: the word 'farangi', which is commonly used for foreigners ('firangi' in Hindi/Urdu) literally referred to the French (i.e. 'Frenchie'), but was later applied to anything foreign. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firangi_%28sword%29#cite_note-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firangi_%28sword%29#cite_note-...
- clentaminator 11y ago
  Any chance this was how the Ferengi from Star Trek were names?
- zhemao 11y ago
  It means "Frank" not "French". It was originally used to describe western Europeans in general.
  - jdminhbg 11y ago
    "Frank" and "French" are essentially the same word: http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=French http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=French
    - jhbadger 11y ago
      Yes, but that was because French as a language/culture didn't exist. The historical Franks (including Charlemagne) despite living where France is now, actually spoke Frankish, a language related to German.
      - jdminhbg 11y ago
        GP is talking about the people, not the language. "Frank" and "French" are two English words that refer to the same-ish people living in the same-ish part of Western Europe. Saying that a particular Hindi word means "Frank" not "French" is a distinction that doesn't really make sense in context.
        zhemao 11y ago
        Same-ish is not the same. That's like saying Anglo-Saxon and English mean the same thing. The distinction is important because the Persians never used that word to specifically refer to Frenchmen but rather to all western Europeans.
        jdminhbg 11y ago
        Anglo and English do in fact mean the same thing. They're the same word, pulled into and out of different languages at different times.
Mikeb85 11y ago
Many dishes we think of as "Indian" also trace a Persian origin, for example Biryani, Korma, Naan, Jalebi, Gulab Jamun, and so on (pretty much most Mughal-era Cuisine).
- npalli 11y ago
  Indian/Pakistani Biryani is derived from Indian Pulao and not the Persian Beryani which is a meat patty with no rice. Korma/Naan are turkish or central asian in origin. Jalebi is semitic possibly arabic in origin. Gulab Jamun in Persian and it spread both to India and the Arab world.
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    > Indian/Pakistani Biryani is derived from Indian Pulao and not the Persian Beryani which is a meat patty with no rice. Pulao and Biryani aren't really the same (well, sometimes they are). Most Biryanis I've had have a lot more saffron and rose-water than any other Indian food I've come across, and many of the places 'famous' for Biryani were important Mughal cities. Another explanation I've come across is that as "Beryan" means to fry, Biryani got its name because it's basically fried meat + rice. Of course it evolved into more of a curried meat + rice sort of thing, but the spices are definitely Persion-derived. > Korma/Naan are turkish or central asian in origin. Possibly, cooking flatbread in an oven is as old as time. Probably dates back to someone 8000 years ago laying down flattened dough on a pile of hot coals or rocks. Also keep in mind Persia has been Persia for longer than there's been Turks in Turkey, and most central asian cultures have definite Persian influence. The current form definitely came into India from Persia. > Jalebi is semitic possibly arabic in origin. Possibly, definitely came to India from Persia though.
    - npalli 11y ago
      This is what Persian Biryani looks like, pretty sure it is nothing like Indian Biryanis. I was pretty surprised when I saw it on a cooking travel show. http://www.kosherdelight.com/Iran_Recipes_Beryani.gif http://www.kosherdelight.com/Iran_Recipes_Beryani.gif http://www.iliveinafryingpan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/cover.jpg http://www.iliveinafryingpan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/... How are the spices 'definitely' Persian derived. I remember the spices used for Indian biryanis and they run the entire gamut definitely not common in Persia even today. Well Turkic people have been around long before Turkey. Mughalai cuisine is strongly influenced by central asian cuisine not Persian. Regarding Turks and Central Asia, they have a culture and history independent of Persia or Middle east or China. Most of the Muslims came to India directly via central asia and had their own culture. They did not detour via Persia. Korma for example cooking meats in yogurt/cream after braising most definitely a central asian cultural byproduct.
tokenadult 11y ago
A very interesting article. It is always good for world cuisine when a culture participates in international trade. But the article gets a few details wrong, in forgetting the occasions when the Persian language took in loanwords from other languages, for example "tamarind," which comes from Arabic and means "Indian date." https://www.google.com/search?q=etymology+of+tamarind&oq=etymology+of+tamarind https://www.google.com/search?q=etymology+of+tamarind&oq=ety...
npalli 11y ago
With cuisine you have to be careful in ascribing a unique origin to a word. For example, just glancing at the article I found two words that have a much more nuanced origin. The article mentions that Candy comes from the Persian Qand, but Qand itself came from Khanda (Sanskrit for cubes of Sugar). Similarly Sugar ultimately derives from Shakkara Sanskrit for sugar. Given Sugar from Sugarcane was first crystallized in India and spread from there, it is more appropriate to go with Khanda. The Persian Beryani is nothing like the Indian/Pakistani Biryani. The Persian one is basically a fried meat patty with no rice at all!. The Indian one is aromatic rice and spiced meats which in itself derived from rice Pulao the version called pollo in Persian. Rice was cultivated thousands of years in India before it was introduced to Persia (likely via China around 1 century AD) so a version of Pulao finds mentioned in ancient Indian texts.

45 points by Thevet 11y ago

Persian is a beautiful language. Especially when spoken by females, it sounds so soft and precious (ok, in my mind there are "man"-languages and "female"-languages, depending on which sex sounds nicer when using them)

pm90 11y ago

Another interesting tidbit: the word 'farangi', which is commonly used for foreigners ('firangi' in Hindi/Urdu) literally referred to the French (i.e. 'Frenchie'), but was later applied to anything foreign. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firangi_%28sword%29#cite_note-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firangi_%28sword%29#cite_note-...

clentaminator 11y ago
Any chance this was how the Ferengi from Star Trek were names?
zhemao 11y ago
It means "Frank" not "French". It was originally used to describe western Europeans in general.
- jdminhbg 11y ago
  "Frank" and "French" are essentially the same word: http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=French http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=French
  - jhbadger 11y ago
    Yes, but that was because French as a language/culture didn't exist. The historical Franks (including Charlemagne) despite living where France is now, actually spoke Frankish, a language related to German.
    - jdminhbg 11y ago
      GP is talking about the people, not the language. "Frank" and "French" are two English words that refer to the same-ish people living in the same-ish part of Western Europe. Saying that a particular Hindi word means "Frank" not "French" is a distinction that doesn't really make sense in context.
      - zhemao 11y ago
        Same-ish is not the same. That's like saying Anglo-Saxon and English mean the same thing. The distinction is important because the Persians never used that word to specifically refer to Frenchmen but rather to all western Europeans.
        jdminhbg 11y ago
        Anglo and English do in fact mean the same thing. They're the same word, pulled into and out of different languages at different times.

Mikeb85 11y ago

Many dishes we think of as "Indian" also trace a Persian origin, for example Biryani, Korma, Naan, Jalebi, Gulab Jamun, and so on (pretty much most Mughal-era Cuisine).

npalli 11y ago
Indian/Pakistani Biryani is derived from Indian Pulao and not the Persian Beryani which is a meat patty with no rice. Korma/Naan are turkish or central asian in origin. Jalebi is semitic possibly arabic in origin. Gulab Jamun in Persian and it spread both to India and the Arab world.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  > Indian/Pakistani Biryani is derived from Indian Pulao and not the Persian Beryani which is a meat patty with no rice. Pulao and Biryani aren't really the same (well, sometimes they are). Most Biryanis I've had have a lot more saffron and rose-water than any other Indian food I've come across, and many of the places 'famous' for Biryani were important Mughal cities. Another explanation I've come across is that as "Beryan" means to fry, Biryani got its name because it's basically fried meat + rice. Of course it evolved into more of a curried meat + rice sort of thing, but the spices are definitely Persion-derived. > Korma/Naan are turkish or central asian in origin. Possibly, cooking flatbread in an oven is as old as time. Probably dates back to someone 8000 years ago laying down flattened dough on a pile of hot coals or rocks. Also keep in mind Persia has been Persia for longer than there's been Turks in Turkey, and most central asian cultures have definite Persian influence. The current form definitely came into India from Persia. > Jalebi is semitic possibly arabic in origin. Possibly, definitely came to India from Persia though.
  - npalli 11y ago
    This is what Persian Biryani looks like, pretty sure it is nothing like Indian Biryanis. I was pretty surprised when I saw it on a cooking travel show. http://www.kosherdelight.com/Iran_Recipes_Beryani.gif http://www.kosherdelight.com/Iran_Recipes_Beryani.gif http://www.iliveinafryingpan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/cover.jpg http://www.iliveinafryingpan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/... How are the spices 'definitely' Persian derived. I remember the spices used for Indian biryanis and they run the entire gamut definitely not common in Persia even today. Well Turkic people have been around long before Turkey. Mughalai cuisine is strongly influenced by central asian cuisine not Persian. Regarding Turks and Central Asia, they have a culture and history independent of Persia or Middle east or China. Most of the Muslims came to India directly via central asia and had their own culture. They did not detour via Persia. Korma for example cooking meats in yogurt/cream after braising most definitely a central asian cultural byproduct.

tokenadult 11y ago

A very interesting article. It is always good for world cuisine when a culture participates in international trade. But the article gets a few details wrong, in forgetting the occasions when the Persian language took in loanwords from other languages, for example "tamarind," which comes from Arabic and means "Indian date." https://www.google.com/search?q=etymology+of+tamarind&oq=etymology+of+tamarind https://www.google.com/search?q=etymology+of+tamarind&oq=ety...

npalli 11y ago

With cuisine you have to be careful in ascribing a unique origin to a word. For example, just glancing at the article I found two words that have a much more nuanced origin. The article mentions that Candy comes from the Persian Qand, but Qand itself came from Khanda (Sanskrit for cubes of Sugar). Similarly Sugar ultimately derives from Shakkara Sanskrit for sugar. Given Sugar from Sugarcane was first crystallized in India and spread from there, it is more appropriate to go with Khanda. The Persian Beryani is nothing like the Indian/Pakistani Biryani. The Persian one is basically a fried meat patty with no rice at all!. The Indian one is aromatic rice and spiced meats which in itself derived from rice Pulao the version called pollo in Persian. Rice was cultivated thousands of years in India before it was introduced to Persia (likely via China around 1 century AD) so a version of Pulao finds mentioned in ancient Indian texts.